waha
Active Member
I mis typed the drop of the Berger. It drops 331 inches at 1,000 instead of 226, which is the drop of the 55 Grain Ball tip!
Suggestions for varmint rifle project
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biff's reloading
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Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 4000.0 3.583 1953.7 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.9 0.9 3497.1 3.132 1493.3 0.080 14.1 13.5
200 -1.4 -0.6 3.9 1.9 3049.2 2.731 1135.3 0.172 30.3 14.5
300 -6.5 -2.1 9.4 3.0 2624.7 2.351 841.2 0.278 49.0 15.6
400 -16.7 -4.0 18.0 4.3 2230.5 1.998 607.5 0.402 70.8 16.9
500 -34.0 -6.5 30.7 5.9 1860.3 1.666 422.5 0.549 96.7 18.5
600 -61.5 -9.8 48.8 7.8 1534.6 1.374 287.5 0.727 128.0 20.4
700 -103.9 -14.2 73.5 10.0 1268.9 1.137 196.6 0.943 165.9 22.6
800 -168.1 -20.1 105.6 12.6 1085.1 0.972 143.8 1.200 211.2 25.2
900 -261.6 -27.8 143.9 15.3 974.2 0.873 115.9 1.493 262.7 27.9
1000 -391.8 -37.4 187.3 17.9 897.4 0.804 98.3 1.814 319.3 30.5
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 4000.0 3.583 1953.7 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.9 0.9 3497.1 3.132 1493.3 0.080 14.1 13.5
200 -1.4 -0.6 3.9 1.9 3049.2 2.731 1135.3 0.172 30.3 14.5
300 -6.5 -2.1 9.4 3.0 2624.7 2.351 841.2 0.278 49.0 15.6
400 -16.7 -4.0 18.0 4.3 2230.5 1.998 607.5 0.402 70.8 16.9
500 -34.0 -6.5 30.7 5.9 1860.3 1.666 422.5 0.549 96.7 18.5
600 -61.5 -9.8 48.8 7.8 1534.6 1.374 287.5 0.727 128.0 20.4
700 -103.9 -14.2 73.5 10.0 1268.9 1.137 196.6 0.943 165.9 22.6
800 -168.1 -20.1 105.6 12.6 1085.1 0.972 143.8 1.200 211.2 25.2
900 -261.6 -27.8 143.9 15.3 974.2 0.873 115.9 1.493 262.7 27.9
1000 -391.8 -37.4 187.3 17.9 897.4 0.804 98.3 1.814 319.3 30.5
waha
Active Member
What B.C., elevation, temp are you using? I've ran it with 2 programs and both are consistant.
Try 4,000 FPS
.276 BC
6,000 Elevation
70 Temp
Try 4,000 FPS
.276 BC
6,000 Elevation
70 Temp
lerch
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
WaHa,
I have been in your shoes here buddy, trust me the heavy for caliber bullets are better. I will guarantee you 80% of your long range misses will be due to windage and not elevation. Elevation is realitively constant, windage is a pain in the ***. I am saying all of this because about 1.5 yrs ago me and Bill Bailey joined the forum and started bragging about the amazing results we were getting with the 125gr BT in a 300RUM, 3940fps!!! We thought this was freakin amazing and there would be nothing that could beat it a long range, WRONG! The guys here tried to tell us about windage, consistancy, better bullet for chamber combos, etc. we wouldnt listen and we should have
IF you compare the 105 berger to the 55gr BT at 1000yds here is what you get.
105berger
drop---25.75moa
wind---6.50moa
fps---1567fps (definantly supersonic)
55gr BT
drop---25.75 (same)
wind---12.50 (basically twice as much)
fps---1109 (most likely sub sonic)
Now please dont think I am harping on ya here. I am only trying to offer advice because I have been in the same situation. Try the heavy bullets, the 105 amax and 105berger are great. At long range you will get better consistancy, reduce flyers, dramatically better wind bucking ability, substantially better down range energy, and the ability to push things farther than 1k.
And the energy does matter down range, bullet expansion is what will allow these small diameter bullets to immediatly disable and kill small critters at long range. I personnaly favor the 105amax over the berger, even though there is a bc drop, because its polymer tip lends itself more to expansion.
Those little SOB's will run off with a 6mm hole punched threw them unless its in his peanut or spine!!
take it easy
steve
I have been in your shoes here buddy, trust me the heavy for caliber bullets are better. I will guarantee you 80% of your long range misses will be due to windage and not elevation. Elevation is realitively constant, windage is a pain in the ***. I am saying all of this because about 1.5 yrs ago me and Bill Bailey joined the forum and started bragging about the amazing results we were getting with the 125gr BT in a 300RUM, 3940fps!!! We thought this was freakin amazing and there would be nothing that could beat it a long range, WRONG! The guys here tried to tell us about windage, consistancy, better bullet for chamber combos, etc. we wouldnt listen and we should have
IF you compare the 105 berger to the 55gr BT at 1000yds here is what you get.
105berger
drop---25.75moa
wind---6.50moa
fps---1567fps (definantly supersonic)
55gr BT
drop---25.75 (same)
wind---12.50 (basically twice as much)
fps---1109 (most likely sub sonic)
Now please dont think I am harping on ya here. I am only trying to offer advice because I have been in the same situation. Try the heavy bullets, the 105 amax and 105berger are great. At long range you will get better consistancy, reduce flyers, dramatically better wind bucking ability, substantially better down range energy, and the ability to push things farther than 1k.
And the energy does matter down range, bullet expansion is what will allow these small diameter bullets to immediatly disable and kill small critters at long range. I personnaly favor the 105amax over the berger, even though there is a bc drop, because its polymer tip lends itself more to expansion.
Those little SOB's will run off with a 6mm hole punched threw them unless its in his peanut or spine!!
take it easy
steve
waha
Active Member
I hear you on the wind drift and I understand it. I tried to do the same thing with my 300 RUM. Loaded the Barnes 130 XLC to 3,950 and shot a few elk and bear but the drift was pathetic. It was great without the recoil wasn't it?
I know we can make the charts look any way we want but for shooting all day at chucks and an occassional long range shot at a coyota the 55's are great. Like I said twice earlier if the wind picks up I stick in a bigger piece of lead. I shot a 22-250 for varmints for over 30 years and when the little 6mm bullets came out I laughed at the idea until I started loading and shooting them. I took my 11 year old boy in July for a varmint vacation for a week in Southern Idaho and he learned how to range, adjust for MOA, wind and hold on. Great fun and we had use the bigger bullets frequently. The 55's are inexpensive and accurate and with no recoil they are fine for most of my varmint use. I do agree with you on the bigger bullets in the wind.
Thanks Lerch
I know we can make the charts look any way we want but for shooting all day at chucks and an occassional long range shot at a coyota the 55's are great. Like I said twice earlier if the wind picks up I stick in a bigger piece of lead. I shot a 22-250 for varmints for over 30 years and when the little 6mm bullets came out I laughed at the idea until I started loading and shooting them. I took my 11 year old boy in July for a varmint vacation for a week in Southern Idaho and he learned how to range, adjust for MOA, wind and hold on. Great fun and we had use the bigger bullets frequently. The 55's are inexpensive and accurate and with no recoil they are fine for most of my varmint use. I do agree with you on the bigger bullets in the wind.
Thanks Lerch
lerch
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
well good luck shooting and if ya get time post some pics of any of your varmint trips, everybody here loves pics
have a good un
steve
have a good un
steve
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Waha,
There is not much else to say on the subject of light vs. heavy for caliber bullets, but just had to say when I saw your post on the 55 gr I had to chuckle a bit. Not @ you, but @ myself. Check out this post I made a year and a half ago and you'll understand.
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/s...=true#Post57664
Look familiar? I must say you handled yourself a little better than I did though.
I shot the 55 gr 6mm as well as the 125 gr 30 cal. 1.5 years later, 1000+ posts later and much lighter wallet (**** you LRH and Kirby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) I now go straight for the heaviest highest bc bullet I can find (even if they are made by some second rate Canadian bulletsmith/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
No doubt those little light bullets are exposive though!! Blew a pd in half @ about 70 yds w/the 125s. His head was about 10-15 yds from his butt!!!!
There is not much else to say on the subject of light vs. heavy for caliber bullets, but just had to say when I saw your post on the 55 gr I had to chuckle a bit. Not @ you, but @ myself. Check out this post I made a year and a half ago and you'll understand.
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/s...=true#Post57664
Look familiar? I must say you handled yourself a little better than I did though.
I shot the 55 gr 6mm as well as the 125 gr 30 cal. 1.5 years later, 1000+ posts later and much lighter wallet (**** you LRH and Kirby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) I now go straight for the heaviest highest bc bullet I can find (even if they are made by some second rate Canadian bulletsmith/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
No doubt those little light bullets are exposive though!! Blew a pd in half @ about 70 yds w/the 125s. His head was about 10-15 yds from his butt!!!!
biff's reloading
Well-Known Member
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i use the 55's too. and i really like em, but i like the 87 vmax better. i wasnt tryin to poke at ya or argue, but show that if we are just goin offa charts, we can make the #'s do just about anything. actually shooting these bullets in the 6mm's for a while now(thats all ive really shot), ive found out that the charts dont really help much. i hope u didnt take me as being combative.....
and i too would like to see some pics /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
and i too would like to see some pics /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I was surprised to see so many responses to the post...bit off topic but some great info to think about.
Well I purchased a Rem700 Police model, 26" barrel, .308 cal, HS Stock, matte black.
Just to be able to shoot the sucker, I picked up 168gr A-max factory loads. Give me something to do over the holiday weekend. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Well I purchased a Rem700 Police model, 26" barrel, .308 cal, HS Stock, matte black.
Just to be able to shoot the sucker, I picked up 168gr A-max factory loads. Give me something to do over the holiday weekend. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Ought to be a good choice. I used to make fun of the 308 but the more I've looked @ it, I'm not sure there is a better round for a guy to start out with. There a tons of excellent options for factory ammo, many bullets to choose from and it just seems to be a cartridge that flat out shoots well. Let us know how she does and post some pics when you get it rigged!!!!
James Jones
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
- Messages
- 2,854
the 308 is a great choice for any body wanting to get into long range shooting.
My personal favorite go to gun is one of the first one I built for my self it'll shoot into 1/2 moa out to 500yds all day long with FACTORY Black Hills 175's. My longest kill on a big game animal to date is with this gun at 618 lazer ranged yds on a white tail doe.
its not the flatest shooting , sexiest looking , loudest , shoulder jaring ,having to take out a loan to buy reloading supplies , but it flat out gets the job done !!!
My personal favorite go to gun is one of the first one I built for my self it'll shoot into 1/2 moa out to 500yds all day long with FACTORY Black Hills 175's. My longest kill on a big game animal to date is with this gun at 618 lazer ranged yds on a white tail doe.
its not the flatest shooting , sexiest looking , loudest , shoulder jaring ,having to take out a loan to buy reloading supplies , but it flat out gets the job done !!!
waha
Active Member
Thanks Bill, I'm new to forums but been around this long-range shooting and ballistics all my life. I really enjoyed your thread from last year and I'm sure I'll get a chuckle out of this someday! I still use my 130 XLC"s in the ultra from time to time. They are wonderful on bear and elk if you aim for the shoulders and the recoil is negligible. I'll probably load a few 130 TSX eventually and I'll have more confidence in them opening up better than the original X's. With the 300 ULtra my favorite long range elk load is the 200 accubond due to its long range charateristics and construction. I'm glad the 55 grain bullet issue provided me with the opportunity to visit with a few folks out there and it demonstrates the depth of knowledge this forum has and its members. I'm open minded to anything that works but here's my situation. My son is getting $50.00 per coyote pelt,"he as learned to skin very well because I'm done with it", and the bigger bullets penetrate to much and destroy the hide. The little 55's blow up like a bomb and very rarely do I see an exit wound. Since we are keeping some of the "varmints" this brings up a unique aspect of bullet performance and it doesn't allow me to utilyze the optimum long range, highest B.C. bullet made on the planet for varmints like the rest of the clan. I'm not offended in any way by the feedback and I hope I haven't upset the forum to badly since I'm a "newbey. I can't disagree with any of you on the heavier bullets doping wind better but for "actual" killing critters in the field the 55's are working 95% of the time to our satisfaction but if there is a magic heavy bullet out there bring it on and I'll try it.
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Ahhh, a pelt hunter. I shot a bobcat a few years ago w/those 55 grainers @ about 70 yds and guess what, no exit!! If a guy was wanting to conserve the pelts, that would be the way to go. I've often looked @ the 204 Ruger and thought that would be a great pelt gun. I wouldn't think you would ever get an exit w/a 32 gr bullet @ 4000 + fps.
Desert Fox
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- Jan 31, 2002
- Messages
- 439
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not offended in any way by the feedback and I hope I haven't upset the forum to badly since I'm a "newbey. I can't disagree with any of you on the heavier bullets doping wind better but for "actual" killing critters in the field the 55's are working 95% of the time to our satisfaction but if there is a magic heavy bullet out there bring it on and I'll try it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Steve use whatever works for you.
I'm not offended in any way by the feedback and I hope I haven't upset the forum to badly since I'm a "newbey. I can't disagree with any of you on the heavier bullets doping wind better but for "actual" killing critters in the field the 55's are working 95% of the time to our satisfaction but if there is a magic heavy bullet out there bring it on and I'll try it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Steve use whatever works for you.
