J E Custom
Well-Known Member
That's what I said !!!! but he would have no part of "That Don't Count".
So I just have to try harder. I had also though about trying my 416 with 400 grain solids.
J E CUSTOM
sub sonic 223 or 308 or 300 ar for pigs and coyotes
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That's what I said !!!! but he would have no part of "That Don't Count".
So I just have to try harder. I had also though about trying my 416 with 400 grain solids.
J E CUSTOM
geo4061
Well-Known Member
Zen no worries. Even when I was considering it I would only take head shots at 50 yards or less and only if it gave you a second shot. Hogs are way too spooky so no second shot. All the hype was just a sales pitch. The sub sonic ammo I bought had great swings in velocity, some sub sonic some not. Therefore, not accurate enough. J E has done a lot of ammo testing and he has had terrible accuracy results. No sir, forget sub sonic for hogs or coyotes.
azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
I have run a 300 Blackout (actually 300 Whisper in my case) with a can for 10 years now. I have an adjustable block on my AR platform so the rifle will cycle both with super and sub-sonic. Over time, the rifle has become a dedicated suppressed rig. This rifle is super quiet with the sound of the action cycling a new round being much more 'noisy' than the round leaving the muzzle. It is very quiet.
When I first started tinkering with this round, there was no commercial ammo available. I reloaded using the typical formulas: fast pistol powders with the 208 A-Max or the 230 Sierra Match. I never tried commercial ammo, because I had my loads down before they became available.
Couple of things to keep in mind: (1) Your sub-sonic load at 1000 ft elevation, may well be trans or supersonic at 6000 ft elevation - so load down around 1,000 to 1,050 fps for something to handle all situations; (2) rifle bullets do not expand well below 1,800 fps - so go with a premium bullet made to expand at the lower velocities of the 300 BO such as Corbon, Outlaw, Reapr, Lehigh, etc.; (3) in terms of accuracy and ballistics, think more along pistol caliber, rather than rifle.
The 300 BO is a very versatile round. It is not a "do it all" round. Can it take a deer at 200 yards? You bet. But where it really shines is as a hard-hitting subsonic round.
When I first started tinkering with this round, there was no commercial ammo available. I reloaded using the typical formulas: fast pistol powders with the 208 A-Max or the 230 Sierra Match. I never tried commercial ammo, because I had my loads down before they became available.
Couple of things to keep in mind: (1) Your sub-sonic load at 1000 ft elevation, may well be trans or supersonic at 6000 ft elevation - so load down around 1,000 to 1,050 fps for something to handle all situations; (2) rifle bullets do not expand well below 1,800 fps - so go with a premium bullet made to expand at the lower velocities of the 300 BO such as Corbon, Outlaw, Reapr, Lehigh, etc.; (3) in terms of accuracy and ballistics, think more along pistol caliber, rather than rifle.
The 300 BO is a very versatile round. It is not a "do it all" round. Can it take a deer at 200 yards? You bet. But where it really shines is as a hard-hitting subsonic round.
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Think I'll chime in here...
For the last year of so I've been slaying all kinds of feathered creatures with a AirForce Condor SS in 22 Cal. Litterly thousands of shots, tons of tuning, adjusting, machining, drilling and other stuff that I'm not good at, I finally got her consistent.
Starlings at 80+ yards constantly has increased my eagerness, along with the no need to mess with reloading...
If I can get 300 BO accuracy and consistency to match the Condor SS taking predators should be within reason.
Picked up a Ruger American in 300 BO, with a can, and went to messing around. My load is a 165 Hornady (200+ grain loads had too much kick...) with the lead tip removed to make it flat. Hoping for somewhat of a "wadcutter effect"...
Velocity is around 1070 FPS at the muzzle which is subsonic until the temperature at 4500' AGL drops to somewhere in the 20s. Then its "usually" subsonic.
Group size is in the 0.75 MOA area at 100 yards. The target has been hanging there for awhile and every once in a while I plunk one at it. There is about a 1" hole in it that hasn't grown any with more shooting.
If a starling at 80 yards, from a real steady rest, p/u truck window, hitting a coyote where I want to should be a reasonable expectation.
Where to place the bullet is my question.
Sitting, using sticks, I should be able to place the impact accurately out to 125 yards. Drop chart validated to that distance.
One choice is go for the boiler room. The yote is most certainly gonna be a runner but hopefully it will leave some blood. Winter = snow here, plus my dog likes to jump in the middle of a yote once in awhile. Gonna make her a leather vest similar to that used for hog dogs. She's part catahoula and knows her job.
Another choice for shot placement is between the ears, a bit low, if facing or in the ear if presented.
Only one set so far and one yote down. With the dog's assistance a 117gr 270 Hammer Hunter did one in at 125. Missed the shot opportunity at 20 yards due being unready..... Picked it off while it was playing hide and seek with the dog.
Its about time to get serious. We'll see how things go.
For the last year of so I've been slaying all kinds of feathered creatures with a AirForce Condor SS in 22 Cal. Litterly thousands of shots, tons of tuning, adjusting, machining, drilling and other stuff that I'm not good at, I finally got her consistent.
Starlings at 80+ yards constantly has increased my eagerness, along with the no need to mess with reloading...
If I can get 300 BO accuracy and consistency to match the Condor SS taking predators should be within reason.
Picked up a Ruger American in 300 BO, with a can, and went to messing around. My load is a 165 Hornady (200+ grain loads had too much kick...) with the lead tip removed to make it flat. Hoping for somewhat of a "wadcutter effect"...
Velocity is around 1070 FPS at the muzzle which is subsonic until the temperature at 4500' AGL drops to somewhere in the 20s. Then its "usually" subsonic.
Group size is in the 0.75 MOA area at 100 yards. The target has been hanging there for awhile and every once in a while I plunk one at it. There is about a 1" hole in it that hasn't grown any with more shooting.
If a starling at 80 yards, from a real steady rest, p/u truck window, hitting a coyote where I want to should be a reasonable expectation.
Where to place the bullet is my question.
Sitting, using sticks, I should be able to place the impact accurately out to 125 yards. Drop chart validated to that distance.
One choice is go for the boiler room. The yote is most certainly gonna be a runner but hopefully it will leave some blood. Winter = snow here, plus my dog likes to jump in the middle of a yote once in awhile. Gonna make her a leather vest similar to that used for hog dogs. She's part catahoula and knows her job.
Another choice for shot placement is between the ears, a bit low, if facing or in the ear if presented.
Only one set so far and one yote down. With the dog's assistance a 117gr 270 Hammer Hunter did one in at 125. Missed the shot opportunity at 20 yards due being unready..... Picked it off while it was playing hide and seek with the dog.
Its about time to get serious. We'll see how things go.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Interesting Roy.
I had looked at the big bore Airforce air rifles 25 caliber, 357 caliber and 45 caliber and felt they would do the job. The 357 looked good because you can use pistol bullets and the SS version has an arrester to reduce the sound levels.
Bullets are an average of 140 to 150 grains and velocity is/was over900 ft/sec unless they have changed it. I am looking for a 100 yard rifle minimum.
Still looking and considering.
J E CUSTOM
geo4061
Well-Known Member
I have grown tired of pumping up my Marauder. To get an automatic pump you have to spend a grand and more for tanks. So I forgot about getting a big bore air rifle. The AR offers you the advantage of semi auto. So I thought I would try it instead. If they were quite enough to offer a second head shot and accurate enough. I have had enough of looking for wounded hogs. Roy if I had the bird hunting opportunities you have I would make the investment. Sounds like your having way too much fun. I love watching a good dog work no matter what business he is in.
kiwi49
Well-Known Member
Several shooters in New Zealand, shoot handloaded HP lead in 30 cal, subsonic, through suppressors, usually bolt actions.
Good source locally in Tokoroa (Google it).
Very good results with 308, 300 BO on red deer, pigs, fallow, goats at sub-50 yard ranges in heavy bush.
Worth a look - not sure how ITAR would affect any imports to the US though.
Good source locally in Tokoroa (Google it).
Very good results with 308, 300 BO on red deer, pigs, fallow, goats at sub-50 yard ranges in heavy bush.
Worth a look - not sure how ITAR would affect any imports to the US though.
Mach 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2018
- Messages
- 769
I've been reloading 300 blk out rounds for a long time. Lately I've been using 195gr polymer coated cast bullets in front of h110. It's not the quietest powder but it consistent on velocity. As far as accuracy I can hit a pop can with every round at 75 yards. I have found the low ballistic coefficient cast lead bullets more accurate than the high ballistic coefficient A-MAX and Sierra matchking bullets. My barrel stabilizes the cast bullets just fine. But I did notice less accuracy out of 220 grain Sierra matchkings. I have read some people load them backwards but have never tried that. The 208 a max and 220 smk bullets were designed to be shot at supersonic velocities with a minimum of a 1 in 10t barrel and the barrel being at least 24inches long or so. It's no wonder they are inaccurate in a short barreled blackout going subsonic. As far as a 223 the powder ive found that works best for subsonic loads is Trail Boss. But it will never build enough pressure to cycle your AR action. Even if you went with a pistol length tube and bigger block I think you'd have problems. It just dose t build enough pressure. 7.62x39 will work but a blackout is about the only way to go.
Bax
Well-Known Member
Sub ammo is what these guys do. Developed a bullet that'll expand down to 750fps for 300BO and 308win.
http://discreetballistics.com/product-category/subsonic-hunting-ammunition/
http://discreetballistics.com/product-category/subsonic-hunting-ammunition/
