Stop neck sizing your brass!!!

[nkyshooter]

Hey Charlie - the 260 Rem collet die from Lee will work perfectly as a neck collet for a 260 Rem AI ...

 

[Buck Buster]

I'm considerably new to reloading (30+ years) compared to some of the members here. I started with full sizing and like I noted, I tried neck sizing but ended up going bback to full sizing.

Which process/practice came first, neck sizing or full sizing?

That's a good question. FL resizing is all my father ever did as far as I know, unless he did before I was old enough to get involved in it (1962) FL resizing is all I ever did till I got into long range hunting and shooting and talked to the bench rest shooters (heavy gun) and was shown and told about NS (37-40 years ago) Everything that I FL sized then I still do today and I don't intend to change that, but the magnums I NS only, because that's the way I was told to load for them. I now have more loaded then I will probably ever shoot, unless my shooting habits change. My son was a sniper in the Federal prison system they used 308's with Hart barrels but I think they shot factory ammunition . Don't know for sure what brand.

 

[Swamplord]

It all depends on if you are loading run of the mill hit the barn while in it ammo or competition ammo with multiple firings on the brass with hot loads

It would do some of you well to pay attention to what Erik Cortina is trying to tell you

and throw away the Lee dies

 

[Greyfox]

I couldn't resist

 

[woods]

One of the arguments made against NS vs FL is the growing case issue. Erik's video point this out. All that glitters may not be gold though. This can occur with the initial firings regardless whether you FL resize or Neck size, and be chamber dependent. This effect ihas been explained by Redding, and included in the instructions with their Case Comparator Dye Set. I have surely experienced it. When starting with new brass, the first 1-4 firings, the headspace meadurement of the brass may not reflect the chamber size. Generally headspace with new brass can be 0-.010" shorter the the chamber, but usually shorter since the manufacturers want to make sure it fits all chambers. With the initial firings, the brass will spring back partially to a length that is between the original length of the new brass and the chambers actual headspace. The number of firings before the new brass fully conforms to the actual chamber dimensions can vary with the particular chamber and load. It is important to set up a FL dye when the new case has fully conformed to the chamber. Lots of reloaders may miss this and set their FL dye after the first firing. In some cases you are OK, but in other cases you may unknowingly have excessive headspace as the brass confirms to the chamber, not getting the most from your initial testing/loads. With neck sizing this effect is obvious. With FL sizing, this may be masked. If you do your load testing during this phase you might get erononious results, or develop fight bolt lift as the brass expands, and need to reset your FL dye. I will many times neck size with new brass until I feel the first slight resistance in bolt lift, then set up my FL dye. I have on occasion stayed with neck sizing if the ES and accuracy are noticably better then the subsequent FL testing, and this improvement serves my application. One of my LRH rifles uses NS brass for the first 2-3 firings only. I'll then resize with a body dye and repeat the process getting consistent results. Using this approach, for the last half dozen years this rifle continues to keep 5 shots in a tennis ball sized target at 1000 yards(if I get a good nights sleep), and has accounted for numerous varmints/game animals out to 1200 yards. I'm s firm believer in the end justifying the means, taking the crusaders with a grain of salt. I will say that most of my competition and hunting rifles use FL sized loads, but believe there is a place for both.

^^^^^
This

**** shame I had to read through 8 pages to get to it and it is the most important aspect IMO

You have to find out the internal dimensions of your chamber and use that dimension to then set your shoulder back .001" to .002" to be accurate. IOW if you set your FL die or Body Die to set the shoulder back on once fired brass the probability that you are sizing too much is about 85% IMO. On belted case the probability is 100%. I have measured belted case shoulders that have moved .030" forward and once fired will not move the shoulder that much. It takes 3 or 4 firings.

To do that you need to neck size UNTIL you get a crush fit and then full length if you want to.

Personally, I prefer Lee Collets and Redding Body Dies. Don't like jerking expander balls through necks and bushing dies do not yield as low a runout number as Lee Collets.

YMMV

 

[Tnwhip]

A 223 collet die will work on a 22 Nosler also.

Hey Charlie - the 260 Rem collet die from Lee will work perfectly as a neck collet for a 260 Rem AI ...

 

[bigngreen]

I've seen many cases take a couple firings to get the shoulder out but I can't think of one that did not size some of the body down a little. If a case does not need sized, if you properly set up a FL die you will only get a neck sizing, on the cases that need a little body or shoulder then you get that, that's make consistency!!

 

[nkyshooter]

Truth ...

^^^^^
This

**** shame I had to read through 8 pages to get to it and it is the most important aspect IMO

You have to find out the internal dimensions of your chamber and use that dimension to then set your shoulder back .001" to .002" to be accurate. IOW if you set your FL die or Body Die to set the shoulder back on once fired brass the probability that you are sizing too much is about 85% IMO. On belted case the probability is 100%. I have measured belted case shoulders that have moved .030" forward and once fired will not move the shoulder that much. It takes 3 or 4 firings.

To do that you need to neck size UNTIL you get a crush fit and then full length if you want to.

Personally, I prefer Lee Collets and Redding Body Dies. Don't like jerking expander balls through necks and bushing dies do not yield as low a runout number as Lee Collets.

YMMV

 

[mrmax]

I have this problem with Kiwis , ahh my brass doesn't fit the chamber you did , da da da. Yea because you only neck sized your cases , dude !

 

[barnjoer]

Why stop at the neck when you can have the whole body!!
6XC X 3 shots at 100 yards. I rest my case!

 

[barnjoer]

Here 4 shot at 100 yards - 22-250x55gr Sierra btsp

 

[Shootin4fun]

I don't know which is actually "better" but I do it both ways depending on which rifle I'm shooting and which dies I happened to have bought at the time. For semi-autos I always FL size. For decades I only FL sized all rounds. For some some bolts I neck size, others I full size. I don't necessarily see a difference in accuracy. Concentricity is no better on neck than FL sizing. Basic FL RCBS 243 dies give me .001+, same with RCBS bushing neck dies if I'm careful.
Neck sizing is definitely an easier process and does work the brass less so I prefer it. But yes, it means FL sizing every 3rd or 4th firing.

 

[gunners]

What am I supposed to be impressed? I can shoot one hole groups with just neck sizing already with 2 cals. If I full length resize can I then do no hole groups

 

[J E Custom]

Though I would post another one to keep it going but thought I would try logic this time.

1= What happens when you full length size a cartridge case = It no longer fits the chamber. What difference does that Make ? The most accurate rifles in the world are bag guns (They have no cartridge case, because it would be to big to handle) But the chamber remains exactly the same Every time it is fired.

When sizing a case, many things will prevent it from being exactly the same dimensions as the dies. Thickness differences, spring back, the amount of sizing, Orientation in the chamber when fired, ETC

The less you size, the better the fit in the chamber and the more consistent the case volume will be also the less case stretch you will have that changes the internal volume. Is that Bad ?

There are lots of references to the old days and the now. In the old days bench rest shooters never sized there cases, they were chamber to fit the case and the bullet would be pushed in by hand with just enough grip to hold the bullet in place and then seated against the lands when closing the bolt. They would even orient the case logo in the chamber for consistence. Some even used the same case for every shot (This was the most consistent way Back then). Some still practice
this process. But now it is more common to do some sizing and sort cases for consistency. Could it be that components are better now, chambers are better, barrels are better, stocks are better ?

I cant help but believe that if these practices were still used along with the better components that better results would be possible.

This is a hurry up world and everything takes to much time for the net gain for most. Some will take the time if only to improve a few thousandths. most wont and for there application it may not be necessary.

No one will ever convince ether side of this debate that they are right or wrong. So why try. Apply logic to your argument and don't listen to anyone and then decide.

Keep it going !!!!

J E CUSTOM