Steel Rings with Aluminum Base?

[Pdvdh]

Keep an open mind when you ask this question, and don't forget that the rifle receiver is made of steel. Lots of suppliers manufacture 1-piece aluminum bases and they get mounted on the steel receivers by lots of shooters, including myself. No problems.

Also, remember that the scope tubes are aluminum and many shooters mount their aluminum scope tubes in steel scope rings.

And taking it one thought further, the scope tube is almost always aluminum and the rifle receiver is almost always steel, and the different thermal coefficients of expansion doesn't result in damage to the scope tubes. So the differences in the thermal coefficients of expansion is a non-issue with respect to scopes, scope rings, scope rails, and receivers in the temperature extremes we experience in normal use on planet earth.

I couldn't say why Leupold recommends against mounting their steel rings in an aluminum base. If their rings are the type that insert into a hole in the base and then have to be twisted 90 degrees in order to lock into place, then I could understand some concern from the perspective of the steel/aluminum bearing friction fit. If they're picatinny style rings/bases, then I believe there would be no problems whatsoever. I suppose you'd have to ask Leupold why they advise against this. It could be as simple as by making this statement, it increases the odds you'll buy some Leupold bases to match your Leupold rings. More profit for Leupold.

PS: I'm one of them engineers too. And I admit it even scars me at times!

 

[Nimrodmar10]

I did go to the Leupold sight and hit the "Ask An Expert" button. Unfortunately, I had to just send a message to them. If I hear back, I'll post their answer.

 

[geargrinder]

Geargrinder
I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. You must have posted your first post while I was answering Engineering 101's post. I didn't see it until now. I didn't mean to make it look like I didn't think you knew what you were talking about. I'm open to all opinions. I'm just curious why Leupold advises that.

Didn't hurt my feelings at all. Just pointing out that you can't determine credentials bases on someone's screen name.

I thought D.ID's comment was funny. And I've been around enough engineer's to know it is the absolute truth.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Just got an answer back from Sean Chiles from Leupold's "Ask An Expert". I had asked why they didn't suggest using their steel Mark 4 rings with aluminum bases. Sean's answer was "Steel is harder than aluminum." Why didn't I think of that. I sure am glad I asked a real expert. I wonder if Sean is an engineer.

Oh, and Gear grinder, you missed the smiley face too didn't you.

 

[Pdvdh]

Sean's answer was "Steel is harder than aluminum." Why didn't I think of that.

Mystery solved. Tee hee

 

[SidecarFlip]

Warne makes steel one piece picatinny style bases. You can find them at eabco.com for less than $100. Warne also makes very good steel vertically split Maxima Rings. I personally like them and other than the fact that one cannot lap them, I feel they are superior to the Leupold rings. Warne is all I use.

You can, I do it all the time. Just did a set on a Savage Model 19. There is a definite procedure and you can't mix the halves once lapped, but it can be done. I like Warne rings as well. Use them all the time. Warne Maxima's and Talley. If you want the procedure, send me a PM and I'll detail it for you.

Answering Engineering 101's claim about expansion coefficients between aluminum and steel, my comment is, that does apply with large surface areas and mass but not with scope rails and rings, at least not in my many years of mounting scopes. I apply threadlocker, torque them and forget them. never had one set come back.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just got an answer back from Sean Chiles from Leupold's "Ask An Expert". I had asked why they didn't suggest using their steel Mark 4 rings with aluminum bases. Sean's answer was "Steel is harder than aluminum." Why didn't I think of that. I sure am glad I asked a real expert. I wonder if Sean is an engineer.

Oh, and Gear grinder, you missed the smiley face too didn't you.

Not always. depends entirrely on the grade and heat treatment. Of course that don't apply to consumer components but true nonetheless.

 

[westcliffe01]

Here is the rational behind my thinking. I'm an engineer too and I work on things that get attached to engines and subject to a lot of vibration...

The scope just has to hold its parts together when subjected to recoil forces.

The rings have to carry the inertial forces of the scope

The base has to carry the inertial forces of the scope and rings (combined mass)

The screws that hold the base to the receiver have to carry the inertial forces of the scope, rings and the weight of the base itself.

I cheat a little and use blue loctite between the steel one piece scope base and the receiver. There is quite a bit of surface area for bonding and once it has set up, you can take the screws out and you should not be able to get the base to come off even if you hit it with a rubber mallet (don't ask how I know). I had to apply some heat with a propane torch to soften the loctite to get the base off.

Anyway, at EABCO.com the Warne steel rings are typically less than $30/pair and the base less than $100. The money one can pay for rings and bases (often made from aluminum) can be rather eye watering... I will not own another aluminum ring or base.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Here is the rational behind my thinking. I'm an engineer too and I work on things that get attached to engines and subject to a lot of vibration...

The scope just has to hold its parts together when subjected to recoil forces.

The rings have to carry the inertial forces of the scope

The base has to carry the inertial forces of the scope and rings (combined mass)

The screws that hold the base to the receiver have to carry the inertial forces of the scope, rings and the weight of the base itself.

I cheat a little and use blue loctite between the steel one piece scope base and the receiver. There is quite a bit of surface area for bonding and once it has set up, you can take the screws out and you should not be able to get the base to come off even if you hit it with a rubber mallet (don't ask how I know). I had to apply some heat with a propane torch to soften the loctite to get the base off.

Anyway, at EABCO.com the Warne steel rings are typically less than $30/pair and the base less than $100. The money one can pay for rings and bases (often made from aluminum) can be rather eye watering... I will not own another aluminum ring or base.

You are my neighbor BTW. You can stop by and I'll show you how I lap Warne Maxima's and have coffee or a beverage from the shop fridge.......

I use threadlocker between the base and receiver top but I use 273 High Strength Red. Scratch the mallet, use a sledgehammer.

No engineer here, just a machine shop owner/flunky.

 

[westcliffe01]

I didn't use red because there are times when one needs to remove the base. I recently had to take the base off my Remington 700 action when I sent it to Mc Gowan to get a new barrel. I had to take the base of my model 12 Savage recently to fit a Shilen barrel. I know that one does not do this every few months, but also don't want it to be a huge battle when I know that blue loctite will more than carry the load already.

But maybe your scope is bigger than mine and maybe the powder charge in your cartridge is more than 45gr ???

Whereabouts in MI ? I am just South of Wolf lake, near Napoleon.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Between Deerfield and Petersburg on Adrain Deerfield Road or about 3 miles southwest of Cabelas, just over the Lenawee County line. I have a 517 Area code like you but I'm techinically in Monroe County.

I'm not in the habit of taking them apart once they are setup.