Calling for Change: Respect and Truth in Hunting Discussions

[Petey308]

Gday
Hmmmm
So much in that Aaron

Some I've got no idea on what some of those words are
Some of it I can see in me
Some of it I can see in all of us

Yes I can improve
Yes we can all improve

but ok Aaron & brathany what Is TDLR
a pm fine if it's anything over the top

cheers

TLDR= Too long, didn't read.

 

[MT-JONAS]

I mean you said it yourself…cliques and dunning-Kruger effect. There's no debating those people.

If someone asked what is the best ballistic app…people just throw out whatever their favorite app is. Despite limited knowledge on other apps.

Very few people care or listen to what is actually used professionally, or what has been used historically to win competitions, which are both metrics to what is "best."

I mean, right off the bat, there's no telling the hammer bullet crowd anything. The members here, are the same members on that forum. That's a clique and that's an echo chamber.

The reality is, this is a forum and people are dumb. I'm not going to stop what I'm doing 15
miles on foot in the back country to take pictures and make a dissection to prove so and so wrong on the forum because they didn't listen to me. That would be narcissistic. And honestly I don't care that much.

And around it goes.

Weeeellll… there's that, I guess.

 

[Brathany]

Weeeellll… there's that, I guess.

Haters gonna hate, brah!

 

[Petey308]

I mean you said it yourself…cliques and dunning-Kruger effect. There's no debating those people.

If someone asked what is the best ballistic app…people just throw out whatever their favorite app is. Despite limited knowledge on other apps.

Very few people care or listen to what is actually used professionally, or what has been used historically to win competitions, which are both metrics to what is "best."

I mean, right off the bat, there's no telling the hammer bullet crowd anything. The members here, are the same members on that forum. That's a clique and that's an echo chamber.

The reality is, this is a forum and people are dumb. I'm not going to stop what I'm doing 15
miles on foot in the back country to take pictures and make a dissection to prove so and so wrong on the forum because they didn't listen to me. That would be narcissistic. And honestly I don't care that much.

And around it goes.

I definitely agree with a lot of what you're saying. Examples you point out are valid. I purposefully left specific examples out of it to let the person reading come up with their own examples as they read it and relate to it.

I have my own examples that come to mind as well, and some may or may not be similar to yours.

I will be honest and realistic. I do not anticipate things to change or change completely. Human nature runs deep. The main goal here is to spread awareness and invoke thoughts and get these things in the back of people's minds.

A lot of good could come from the community working better together through the things I mentioned. We shouldn't all be robots though and a difference of opinion and personal priorities matter and should matter.

That's part of my point though. We need to be more open to that instead of shutting it down and only pushing the "my opinion and my preference is better than yours or is correct and your opinion and preference is wrong".

And no one should feel the need to stop what they're doing in life outside of the Internet to correct others or argue with others on the Internet. In that scenario you might be better off just letting it go and ignoring it, rather than engaging with it.

I don't know, just some thoughts that come to mind after reading your response.

 

[MT-JONAS]

Ever watch the House and Senate throwing daggers? We as a society would do well the practice a little more civility towards those of different opinions. I don't speak about TRUTH and REALITY but about opinions. Truth can stand on its own 2 feet. And it will eventually, I believe. Seems to me the digital age has not improved our communication skills or our respect for our fellowman.

 

[fordy]

right off the bat, there's no telling the hammer bullet crowd anything. The members here, are the same members on that forum. That's a clique and that's an echo chamber.

The reality is, this is a forum and people are dumb. I'm not going to stop what I'm doing 15
miles on foot in the back country to take pictures and make a dissection to prove so and so wrong on the forum because they didn't listen to me. That would be narcissistic. And honestly I don't care that much.

And around it goes.

Gday dfanonymous
That is somewhat true & I'm a hammer fan boy

& if I leave that there I most likely will be labeled & if I add more I'll be labeled also

Hmmm so I'm caught right as I love to use the "best " ( define that is hard in a terminal world standpoint as so many variables & why I personally use a system of which pills "cover bases "better but another time on that )

Now that's the issue once again as if I leave this post there I will be labeled once again

So let's add a little more to the discussion & the somewhat " best"
There are some very good hammer bullets just as there are some very poor ones & it's understanding what does what in one's own circumstances to fully understand what can be put into the "best " category once again

So now I hope the labels are getting a little pause as if one clears their head on that surely that's not unreasonable

Now we enter into what's reasonable & or unreasonable

personally I think it quite reasonable to show factual information & ask for clarification or explanation/s
What's unreasonable is when people cover up what's factual proof & then put up smokescreens to cover their known deficiencies of being true to one's word

this is where HT has become a sewer pit of false information & silencing people & yes I got banned overthere but not many will truely understand why & that's the issue of the part of the original post here as if someone does speak up it is met with resistance ( oh yes I'm guilty as most are ) but I guess I'm also a little different as I also am not frightened to show the bad as I hope that tomorrow we have better pills & that's my own personal push

Take apex afterburner & what I did to that design & the backlash I received was pretty substantial from a portion of the lrh community yet the most important part I was personally happy with & cared on was mark's ability to go you know what people it's not what his company wanted to see but through our discussions he put advice on his website & all to see so while I definitely got targeted on that & others I can also say that now due to marks not settling on it was good enough that he has fixed his issue & even improved his pill overall from the tests I carried out he has gained the title of the" best "in the lower velocity windows I carried out

Now hammers are running off their name as it dosent matter what they put out or say now the followers are not questioning as what's going on but fair to some of them they are only reading what is allowed to be put up as censorship is a very crafty tool

So now watch the label once again turn around on me for which ultimately I don't care on labels as if I did I wouldn't be stating facts or getting the better pills we are seeing today & hopefully better tomorrow ( & that's not saying I'm a guru as I'm not & only show a extremely small part in the world of terminal results & way better qualified than me but I'll still push people to hopefully get improvement)

Yep What I care about is factual information that hopefully raises the bar on the pills we may possibly get tomorrow

Yes I'm still a hammer supporter of the good pills but also against the smokescreens to make them look good when they're not

Jm2cw for what's that worth &
Look forward to the labels coming


No proof read just straight from my heart Cheers

 

[FireFlyFishing]

Good post.

I've seen the problems listed on other sites more than this one. The cult like behavior is somewhat alarming. The parroting from younger inexperienced shooters is maddening.

I've learned a ton on gun/hunting forums. But sometimes you really need to beat the brush and get into the weeds to find the good stuff.

Unfortunately, being polite and curious is going the way of the dodo.

 

[med358-boise]

That can be applied to a lot of life's struggles even outside of hunting etc…

Absolutely!

The reason that is and the general problem of "making progress" on this issue of "undesirable behavior" is...it's human nature.

Many people have a driving need to feel valued by others, important in the eyes of others, or superior to others and when they don't feel "it" in their world right in front of them they seek it in an online world because it's "easier". Of course, there is also the group that derives their necessary feelings by putting others down or other antagonistic behaviors.

We have all been around people where you can tell the biggest whopper of a "fish story" about your skills or performance and their skill or performance is better and bigger and no matter the topic or how big of a tale you baited them with and unfortunately people won't change their undesirable behavior unless there is a consequence and since many "good people" just put them on ignore there is no consequence. That is why I support a "quick trigger finger" by moderators.

 

[FEENIX]

I've seen the problems listed on other sites more than this one. The cult like behavior is somewhat alarming. The parroting from younger inexperienced shooters is maddening.

I experienced most of them here, but the height of it was before you joined. Sadly, some of them are the same people, just in different forums.

Unfortunately, being polite and curious is going the way of the dodo.

I agree! Civility, respect for others, the Golden Rule, etc., are dying attributes.

 

[Quintus]

I experienced most of them here, but the height of it was before you joined. Sadly, some of them are the same people, just in different forums.

I agree! Civility, respect for others, the Golden Rule, etc., are dying attributes.

Exactly! There are almost 2 generations now that don't even know what the golden rule is!
Sadly there are entities in this world that have been creating this. Divide and conquer. Segregate, agitate, isolate. The internet, a complicit media, and money have allowed this to take place on a national and global scale. Covid was a big part of it and very successful. It's human nature to have to pick a tribe and then defend it, and to win at all cost. We are very predictable and social, and so, sadly, easy to manipulate.

 

[Duffman]

TLDR..

That's a nice piece.

I'll boil it down for you….humans being humans, but now we have the internet

 

[HandgunHTR]

Good post.

I've seen the problems listed on other sites more than this one. The cult like behavior is somewhat alarming. The parroting from younger inexperienced shooters is maddening.

Here is my take on this particular subject. A lot of time what is called "parroting" is actually a new, or inexperienced shooter, coming onto a forum, learning a certain thing, trying it for themselves and it works, then they come back and tell their experience, sometimes to the point of "over-defending" it. Those that have had different experiences and/or disagree with the results due to either 1) having had a different experience, or 2) having some sort of moral or ethical reason to disagree tend to discount those sharing because it doesn't jive with what they want to have out there. Classic case of #2, #3, and/or #4 in the OP.

That being said, it is not wrong to politely challenge their findings or recommend that they try multiple things before coming to a conclusion, but be courteous about it and don't discount their experiences just because they are not what you have had.
In a lot of these discussions, I think most tend to forget that there are multiple ways to get the same results. Just because someone doesn't do it "your way" doesn't mean it is wrong. It is just different.
Just one more point. It is my firm belief that if we, as gun owners, had all settled on a "common" thing years ago, we probably would have lost our 2A rights by now. The sheer number of different chamberings, firearms, types of guns, etc. make it that much harder for the gun grabbers. This is one area where I believe that diversity has actually helped us. Just my opinion, however.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

I experienced most of them here, but the height of it was before you joined. Sadly, some of them are the same people, just in different forums.

I think the better forums are the forums that tend to have more rules and those rules are enforced. Otherwise, you get the types that become very courageous behind their keyboard. The report and block features are great tools as well.

I think of it this way. You're at your favorite restaurant/bar hanging out with your buddies and the guy who consumed way too much much inserts himself in your group's space bubble and conversation. That's when the bouncer helps that individual to the door. Sometimes that needs to be a permanent decision.

Here is my take on this particular subject. A lot of time what is called "parroting" is actually a new, or inexperienced shooter, coming onto a forum, learning a certain thing, trying it for themselves and it works, then they come back and tell their experience, sometimes to the point of "over-defending" it. Those that have had different experiences and/or disagree with the results due to either 1) having had a different experience, or 2) having some sort of moral or ethical reason to disagree tend to discount those sharing because it doesn't jive with what they want to have out there. Classic case of #2, #3, and/or #4 in the OP.

I don't disagree. I've also seen the wannabe that clings onto whatever they see/read and then "parrot" what they have seen online without any real world experience. They're quick to argue as they have zero experience and your experience doesn't fit the hive mind/cult's ideas.

 

[FEENIX]

I think the better forums are the forums that tend to have more rules and those rules are enforced. Otherwise, you get the types that become very courageous behind their keyboard. The report and block features are great tools as well.

The rules have always been in place. For the longest time, we have never had administrators acting as moderators. We are supposed to be self-moderating. I think that has always been @Len Backus's goal for this site.