Steam affecting spotting hit/missess in low light

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Coppers like velocity. The 6 ARC is not a speed demon…at all. I'd go cup and core in that cartridge if it were me. If you did hit the animal, I'd be wondering about pencil'n.


No

Yep! Id be runnin the 108eldm if I could. For lead free the 95DRT would would similar but they wont ship here. Gunna have 88MTHs worked up here soon, if they work as advertised thatll help as they lose the front half.

 

[memtb]

Definitely! I love hammer hunters! I had great luck with em in my 6.5PRC my nephew talked me out of. Very quick kills. I think the new tipped ones might be ideal for slower cartridges like this.

I kinda like something large enough, that even if the bullet fails to "expand at all"……there is still a lot of disturbed tissue and/or bone! memtb

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

If you are set on staying with that 6 ARC I would look hard at the 70 grain Hammer Hunters. You should be able to push them way faster than the 95 LRX and the tip fragments to create more wound channels. The BC will be drastically lower than the LRX though.
I agree with @FireFlyFishing, if you did hit him with that Barnes LRX at that velocity, it could have penciled. I experienced penciling with Barnes bullets on a couple bucks in NorCal. Fortunately both were recovered but it made me switch to Hammer bullets, run lighter for caliber pills, and push velocity.

Good post. Yeah Im definitely not ruling that out. It sounded like a hit. I even checked the tree behind him to see if thats what was hit or also hit and did not see any hole.
That gent on youtube who tests bullets i. Gel at low n high velocity had one LRX pencil, swerve n exit the block at like around 2k? That was a .264 127 i think.

I had a 151 Badlands BD2 out of a 284win enter in the crease of a broadside buck facing left @5° angle and it somehow turned down and left and exited at the low edge of the brisket in front of opposite shoulder. He was still walkin when i got there 35 minutes later and i had to shoot him again.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

The bright flash you saw was caused by powder burning beyond the end of the barrel. It's called muzzle flash and all that powder burning out there is wasted energy and does nothing to increase velocity or energy. Either get a longer barrel so that powder is useful, or if you hand load, change to a faster burning powder or decrease the amount of powder you are loading to where there is little or no muzzle flash. Powder is not cheap these days, no sense using more than can be used usefully. Muzzle flash, whether you can see it or not is wasted energy.

It wasnt muzzle flash, ive seen and experienced that plenty. This was white/grey. Like steam or clouds and dissipated as those would do. Muzzle flash is orange flame and its instantaneous. Gone in a flash even hahaha

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Using my tried and (un)proven SWAG system……the steam, that he thought he saw, may have been a reflection of the muzzle flash off of high humidity, moisture laden air or even a reflection off of the dark cloud background! memtb

moisture laden air, yes thats what it seems to me made it appear like steam thru the scope.

Watchin some of the huntin shows the guy takes a shot at low light and camera sees white that drifts away with wind or dissipates or whatever. In a lot of those cases especially with braked magnums you clearly see muzzle flash too, but I didnt see any orange.

 

[memtb]

It wasnt muzzle flash, ive seen and experienced that plenty. This was white/grey. Like steam or clouds and dissipated as those would do. Muzzle flash is orange flame and its instantaneous. Gone in a flash even hahaha

Muzzle flash is orange flame and its instantaneous. Gone in a flash even hahaha

You must be runn'n a "cool burning" powder, I use a very fast burning powder….looks a little like a little "nuke" going off! memtb

 

[Philward]

Started hunting in 72 I think and can count on one hand (or 2 fingers) how many blacktails that have run off after shooting. Kind of why I'm surprised how many whitetail and muleys I see shot in videos that bolt off. Even the elk I've shot have gone down right away, not counting archery kills. Using all manner of cup and core bullets and solid copper. 30-06, 257bob, 257wby, 270win, 280 rem, 7RM, 7mm08. I have missed with bad distance judgement more than once (prior to having a rangefinder).

I have seen the steam thing as the OP mentions but that was testing some 7rm loads in an impromptu shooting off tailgate of truck and it happened to be pouring rain and cold. Steam rising off barrel after second shot so I had to wait a minute or so to continue. Sometimes put rifle back inside truck when I went to check target. So with rain and temp just right I believe a steam cloud could happen. Maybe the bullet disintegrated?

We hunt a lot in the rain here, it's inevitable, and this year seemed to be pretty wet, at least on the wetside.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Small bore @ near minimal velocity, small(ish) big game animal, as much as it pains me to suggest this…..a good job for a cup and core or a mono that sheds "petals" at a somewhat reduced velocity.

Or my recommended solution….. a substantially larger caliber bullet at a substantially higher velocity, using the aforementioned "petal shedding" bullet!

A win, win, win answer……for the WIN! memtb

I have a new 7PRC with 152 Cutting Edge Maximus' in load development right now, theyll be going 3100ish. That oughta leave a mark lol.

These are the last LRXs Im shootin in this caliber, theyve done good on other deer but obviously maximizing its abilities is prudent.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

You must be runn'n a "cool burning" powder, I use a very fast burning powder….looks a little like a little "nuke" going off! memtb

This is makin me wanna take a few guns to the gravel pit and video low light shots to see differences in color, size, flame length, time etc. Lol

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Started hunting in 72 I think and can count on one hand (or 2 fingers) how many blacktails that have run off after shooting. Kind of why I'm surprised how many whitetail and muleys I see shot in videos that bolt off. Even the elk I've shot have gone down right away, not counting archery kills. Using all manner of cup and core bullets and solid copper. 30-06, 257bob, 257wby, 270win, 280 rem, 7RM, 7mm08. I have missed with bad distance judgement more than once (prior to having a rangefinder).

I have seen the steam thing as the OP mentions but that was testing some 7rm loads in an impromptu shooting off tailgate of truck and it happened to be pouring rain and cold. Steam rising off barrel after second shot so I had to wait a minute or so to continue. Sometimes put rifle back inside truck when I went to check target. So with rain and temp just right I believe a steam cloud could happen. Maybe the bullet disintegrated?

We hunt a lot in the rain here, it's inevitable, and this year seemed to be pretty wet, at least on the wetside.

Steam off the barrel, yes that makes sense. As does gasses from the burnt powder appearing to be smoke or steam cloud.

Regarding blacktail runnin a bit after being hit, my experiences show it plenty. But with the right bullets n good placement its usually less than 50 yards and u can see by the ground that theyre hit hard even if there is no blood.

My favorite loads for dead right there heart/lung shots there have all been magnums runnin fast loads: 257wby with 117hornady btsp 3300+ & 100factory sp 3500, 270wsm with 110tsx or TTSX 3400-3500fps. Out to 200yds they drop and didnt sucessfully get back up, even tho they may have tried.
2nd best is a bullet like the 150 hornady SST in 06, 95sst in 243, 100 sierra gameking in 243, 100 winchester silvertip in 250 sav, 60gr nosler partition in 22-250, 150 speer hotcor in 30-30, 150speer spbt in 308, 140 ptcl in 7-08. With those I pretty much know the deer might run but its only gunna be 20-50 yards and Ill see sign within 10/20 yards that theyre hit and gunna be down.
Copper bullets... thats a work in progress as we see. Lol.

 

[ObiJohn]

So you've gone from a squirrel hunter to a squirrel shooter? For me, finding/spotting game is the fun and challenging part of hunting. I'd much rather ease through the woods looking for squirrels in the tree tops vs finding them with a thermal. That'd be like cheating.

Are binoculars cheating? What about rifle scopes? Or aperture sights? Is the only sporting rifle my old Winchester 67A? As I mentioned I still have to stalk and use a conventional scope... and still have to make the shot. All the monocular gives me is a direction to go in, and I still get the majority of squirrels that I do because a bark, movement, or sound (limbs swishing, nails on bark) clues me in. The monocular is a tool, one of many.

 

[clark33]

Are binoculars cheating? What about rifle scopes? Or aperture sights? Is the only sporting rifle my old Winchester 67A? As I mentioned I still have to stalk and use a conventional scope... and still have to make the shot. All the monocular gives me is a direction to go in, and I still get the majority of squirrels that I do because a bark, movement, or sound (limbs swishing, nails on bark) clues me in. The monocular is a tool, one of many.

You advocate for thermals yet still believe KE is what actually kills animals? I'm so confused. 6ARC with the right bullet can kill beyond 600yds all day every day.

 

[ObiJohn]

You advocate for thermals yet still believe KE is what actually kills animals? I'm so confused. 6ARC with the right bullet can kill beyond 600yds all day every day.

I believe tissue destruction that leads to blood loss and brain death kills animals, and the more traumatic the damage, the quicker the death. The more powerful the cartridge, the more traumatic the damage.

What that has to do with thermal monoculars is beyond me.

 

[clark33]

I believe tissue destruction that leads to blood loss and brain death kills animals, and the more traumatic the damage, the quicker the death. The more powerful the cartridge, the more traumatic the damage.

What that has to do with thermal monoculars is beyond me.

You're the one who brought up his 6ARC being inadequate past 400yds for deer, which is just flat out false. I found it funny how such an old school mentality on cartridges and KE could live in the same brain as wanting to use thermals.