Sorting Brass

[QuietTexan]

I don't shoot much AR, mostly bolt action rifles.

They yeah, I would keep them as separated as possible even though it's a headache and you might have to spend a lot of time sorting/relegate to foulers/just trash some mixed up cases you have and buy a new matched set.

I have a stack of random 308s in loading blocks on my desk right now that I sorted for a friend - three headstamps; one headstamp has one weight group, and two other headstamps each broke down into two weight groups. I'm not volume sorting past that because I don't think it'll make a difference because I'm only loading one set of cases for him, the rest are going into ziplocks for if he needs them for something in the future.

Personally I'm in this game for high accuracy precision, so I match cases to a barrel - buy as many cases of the same brand/lot as you think you'll need for the life of the tube, only use the cases in that barrel, and never let them get mixed up with anything else. Even if I'm messing around with different kinds of brass to try I'll buy enough of that one lot, and if they don't look good after testing 10 or so of them I have the rest for a future barrel still unfired. It sounds like a lot but I think once you've done it this way a couple of times it becomes normal and it's not something you have to think much about. Also not necessary if you're reloading to 1MOA, you can get that with any lot matched case set.

What would you consider the best way to sort by volume? This is all new to me.

Not sure I'd put this level of effort into something if I could buy a matched set of cases. It's easier to start fresh with brass IMO, and if you're shooting a factory chamber a matched set might be all you need and you'll never need to weigh sort them. It's a process that doesn't add a ton of value depending on other variables.

I think water is easy enough though if you want to sort:

1. Separate the brass you have as best you can by headstamps first and case weight second(you should see some pretty clear breaks in the data inside the same headstamp).
2. After shooting with a good stout load and before resizing
3. Leave the primers in the cases
4. Weigh
   1. Put a case on your scale
   2. Zero the scale
   3. Use an eyedropper to fill up the case with a mix of 50/50 water and rubbing alcohol
   4. Record the weight
5. Repeat until all the cases measured
6. Run the weights through some basic statistics in excel or on paper, and see what you've got.

If you don't want to use water, you can use a super fine ball powder like for a pistol, then zero on the empty case and fill to the level case neck with powder. Won't be as accurate or precise, but doesn't involve water.

 

[Combatmedic63]

I think I will go the new case route with the same lot number and keep those cases separated for each rifle as you have stated. All of the brass I have at the moment is brass that I know the history of so I can keep it separated easily.

I have always kept my brass separated by head stamp but I will start weighing by both weight and volume as you have recommended and see where my numbers go.

Thanks for your input and advice.

Scott

 

[Mikecr]

Matching cases without wiping out barrels and wasting a lot of money takes a plan.
Mine:
1. You need a modern cartridge design, low body taper, high shoulder angle, smallest capacity to get the job done with chosen bullet.
2. You need control over the chamber. The sloppier the chamber & more sizing, the greater capacities will vary.
3. Buy enough in-lot to cull ~half into a trash can, and still have what you really need for that barrel.
4. Ball mic measure at necks for thickness and thickness variance. Keep best ~2/3.
5. Dip anneal cases to half body.
6. Prep & Fire form cases 3 times with no sizing.
7. Measure h2o capacities. Keep best ~1/2
8. Send a few of the culled cases to a die maker for custom/minimal body sizing.
9. Do not go past SAAMI max pressure with loads.
10. That's the plan, but I'll add that you should go for sufficient barrel steel around the chamber, strong breach support, and hardest brass alloy.

With this, you should never have to buy brass for that barrel again. So if you really need 50, then pick your best 50 from ~125.

 

[Unclenick]

If you don't sort brass by headstamp, sorting by weight is not very useful unless the difference is extreme. I did an experiment with mixed 308 brass once. Based on cartridge brass being 8.53 times denser than 4°C water, I used the weight difference in a dozen cases to attempt to predict their differences in case water overflow capacity, and the prediction accuracy proved to be a wide ±20%.

The causes are several. One is that different manufacturers use different alloys, and not just 70:30 copper:zinc brass (aka, cartridge brass, 260 brass, or C26000 brass). Remington, for example, uses 20:80 brass (8.67 times denser than water) and some have even used 40:60 brass (aka, Muntz metal, which is 8.34 times the density of water). But that's the minor contributor to the error. The main cause is that you can change things like rim thickness, extractor groove width and depth, and extractor groove relief angle values without changing the internal capacity of the case, and all these things have tolerances. If I walk a .308 case head from the lightest to the heaviest tolerance configuration, I get over 7 grains of weight difference without touching the internal capacity of the case. I haven't done the same thing for 223 brass, but, based on its weight and diameter, I would expect over half that difference to be applicable.

So, bottom line, sort by headstamp first, then by weight. Since most brass comes off multiple toolsets and the output is then mixed, this doesn't guarantee perfect uniformity; it just reduces the weight-related error to at least be using the same basic design. After that, look at load history, if you really want cases that were all treated the same.

 

[Combatmedic63]

Wow, what a boat load of wonderful information to soak in. I will take and use this info to better my reloading process. Thanks so much to all of you.

Scott

 

[MagnumManiac]

What would you consider the best way to sort by volume? This is all new to me.

There are 2 ways to get useful case capacity.
The weight with water filled to the case mouth on several times fired brass with a neck only sized case, but measured with a fired case. This is true chamber capacity.
Or measuring capacity with a Burette and kerosene in CC's on the same several fired case. This is how I do it.

All of the advice above is great, however, sorting brass for a hunting rifle off the shelf is quite different to a competition rifle with custom everything.
Many wonderful groups are shot in factory guns without measuring case volume, flash hole massaging and other prep.
Number one is this:
Size your cases only enough so that it just fits your chamber with .001"-.002" clearance and do the same on your necks.
Oversizing causes more issues than any other aspect in this game.

Cheers.

 

[Pdyson]

I switched to Lapua and Peterson. Sorting Lapua quality brass is not necessary. I will weigh and inspect them all but I rarely find a lemon to cull.

 

[waveslayer]

Oh yes sort by head stamp... weight is a waste of time. It's the neck thickness and internal volume that really matters.

 

[ntsqd]

I'm not yet to the point where I think that I'll notice the difference in case volumes. Need to work on some of the bigger things first. But I thought that I'd mention how I am organizing my cases.

I put all of my cases in an appropriate MTM plastic box and use a label maker to label the box top with:
Caliber
Rifle
Case Batch No. (if needed, i.e. more than one box of cases for a particular rifle)
Case Mfg. (if needed, see batch reasoning, might have more than one case mfg being used in a particular rifle)

I use MTM's sticker inside of each box to keep track of how many firings the whole box has on it. If they haven't been fired yet then loaded or not the cases are placed in the box case mouth up. If they have been fired I put them in case mouth down. Once they're all case mouth down the sticker gets a mark indicating that the whole box has been fired, and they all get sized etc. for the next cycle. I write on the back of one of my business cards exactly what the load is, and place it on top of the bullets inside the box. The MTM sticker is way less than convenient for recording that info.

 

[QuietTexan]

Oh yes sort by head stamp... weight is a waste of time. It's the neck thickness and internal volume that really matters.

Just wanted to clarify for everyone my advice for weight sorting cases was only because he has mixed up a lot of cases from unknown (at least to me) sources. You can weight sort mixed lots of cases of the same headstamp to separate them into psuedo-lots that should be more similar to each other without sorting volumetrically after.

I'm not talking about two lots of Peterson brass that are 1gn different, I've sorted out a 20+ grains per case difference in two Hornady factory loaded cases that look identical side by side, but one was a 150 SST loaded in 2018 and the other was an Interlock loaded in 2005. Ten+ years of manufacturing differences totaling up to a 20 grain difference between the cases means they'll shoot as drastically different as different headstamped brass.

 

[Paladin300]

I sort by head stamp/brand and then weight and times fired. I then measure and trim them all and weight them again. I weigh and sort everything; bullets, brass etc. I use powder from the same lot per 20. A batch of 100-200 will all weigh within 2 grams or less of each other. When I am finished a batch of Twenty will all weigh within a grain or less of each other and standard deviations will be as low as possible depending on the powder. I'm a little ocd! The whole point to me of hand loading is precision accuracy, therefore, sorting brass by head stamp, weight, and times fired is essential! It is about premium brass, bullets, and powder. Why would you not make sure everything is as precise as possible? JMO

 

[ntsqd]

Oh boy, here come the weight vs. volume sorting discussions. I used to think that case weight sorting was accurate enough. After reading and thinking about the arguments posted here (mostly by Mike CR) for sorting instead by interior volume I've concluded that sorting by case weight really doesn't tell you anything useful. I think Quiet Texan in a post above mentioned that brass density can change and case dimensions can change, and these effect what the case weighs without telling you anything about the interior volume. The case weight means very little, can have two cases that weigh the same and have radically different interior volumes. One case could have very thick walls and a thin head while another case can thin walls and a thick head. They might weigh the same, but their interior volumes may or may not be the same and the only way to know anything useful is to measure the case volumes.

I keep all of the cases from the same box(es) together and never allow them to mingle with other cases. When I buy loaded ammo for the calibers that I care about I'm careful to buy from the same lot. I thought that was how everyone did it.

 

[Philward]

I just sort by same head stamp and to hell with the rest. Just prep brass all the same, load and shoot.

 

[Teri Anne]

I know there are those who sort brass by weight but my question is this; does anyone bother to sort and separate their brass by head stamp and reload batches of the same head stamp or does this really matter?

I for one try to keep my brass separated by not only the headstamp, but from the same box and lot number. I don't pay a lot of attention to minor differences in weight since nobody knows where the extra weight came from within the individual cartridge. If I am using unknown (Range) brass I separate by headstamp which is about as close as one can get under those circumstances.