Some brass not bumping back

[Mike Matteson]

No, I've been vehemently against them as I reload to shoot not to reload lol I've never needed one for my accuracy needs so far

Seems maybe I need to finally bite the bullet


Or…. I could toss the cases in the trash and act like this problem didn't happen

Get an annealer and extend the brass life for 1. 2. It also help control your neck tension. Bench-source is $610.00. Get a propane attachment from a larger propane tank to the torchs. That way you are not going thur small propane tanks. Amazon has them. Set up includles regulator. The setup is for camping and using a propane stove, and lantern. A 5 gal propane tank. Tempilaq marking pen. for temperature setting correctly in setting time for annealing. Or you can go to the more expensive system AMP.
It will inprove your grouping some if not a lot. I anneal after ever fiiring.
Allow the case to sit in the die for about 30sec, then turn the case 180dgrs and size again.

 

[Tagnbagem]

Wow, lot of attention in a hurry.
anneal

Dead set to build inductance annealing apparatus.

Believe I have the necessary components (not all pictured). Have 2 power supplys 12 – 24VDC for a total of 960 watts. Some 50 amp relays. A pretty neat timer switch. ZVS board I believe is very capable. I can heat a medium screw driver cherry red in about 3.5 seconds. But thats ferrous metal...

www.longrangehunting.com

Wow, lot of attention in a hurry.
anneal

Dead set to build inductance annealing apparatus.

Believe I have the necessary components (not all pictured). Have 2 power supplys 12 – 24VDC for a total of 960 watts. Some 50 amp relays. A pretty neat timer switch. ZVS board I believe is very capable. I can heat a medium screw driver cherry red in about 3.5 seconds. But thats ferrous metal...

www.longrangehunting.com

One easy way to check to see if you are bumping your brass correctly for your chamber. Is to add a piece of scotch tape( approx. .002) to the case head and insert into chamber. If it close easily your at least .002 off. Keep adding tape till you feel slight resistance that's how much headspace you have. Also if it's once fired brass chance are you aren't to full chamber size usually takes at least 2 firings. If you don't let it grow to full size and keep bumping back after every firing you will never get to full size. You'll overly stretch the brass causing premature case failure.

 

[Tagnbagem]

One easy way to check to see if you are bumping your brass correctly for your chamber. Is to add a piece of scotch tape( approx. .002) to the case head and insert into chamber. If it close easily your at least .002 off. Keep adding tape till you feel slight resistance that's how much headspace you have. Also if it's once fired brass chance are you aren't to full chamber size usually takes at least 2 firings. If you don't let it grow to full size and keep bumping back after every firing you will never get to full size. You'll overly stretch the brass causing premature case failure.

Forgot to mention to stripe the bolt of firing pin, ejector and plunger.

 

[Rich Coyle]

If they fit in the gun with slight resistance, keep them separate, load them and shoot them again in a group with just those cases. Just some questions, what are you using to measure shoulder bump? Are you depriming before you resize to get an accurate measurement? De-prime, measure, then size.
The shoulders aren't fully formed after 1 firing. To me, it sounds like you are actually oversizing the other cases.

Absolutely!

 

[bultinkle]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I'll try to do them all one at a time and see if we have any success.

I understand many don't like to bump early. These cases have resistance to rechambered and im reloading for a family member to hunt with. I don't want resistance and am willing to give up minor accuracy and case life for that comfort in this scenario. The accuracy on virgin cases was more than acceptable for the job

 

[nksmfamjp]

Once fired lapua brass
243 win
Rcbs full length sizer

Most cases bumping back as expected 2-4 thousandths.

6 or so shoulder is not moving at all, even as I crank the die down a lot. Removing expander does not change anything.

Example

Fired case base to shoulder is 1.658

95% of my cases are 1.6535-1.656 which is what I was shooting for

6 cases are 1.6580 and won't budge. I've turned the die almost to camming now and there is zero change.

Yea, this happens.

Anneal those pieces and try again

Annealing is your solution. Sorry!

No, I've been vehemently against them as I reload to shoot not to reload lol I've never needed one for my accuracy needs so far

seems odd to me to need anneal that bad on once fired stuff

I'll set the aside and see about an annealeeze in the future

It works to hold those out until you anneal. Soon your neck tension will be too wonky to be as consistent.

While this makes sense it's hard to wrap my head around why this is happening for such a small number of cases, and yet all the others have no issue being set back with no cam at all and over a full turn less die engagement

my guess is the original Anneal was different or they changed based on the actual load and pressure they had. How many loadings are on this brass?

Pdvdh is correct

What is Pdvdh?

Redding shell inserts, or grind down your die.

That's not how they work. Basically, 0 is a std shellholder and from there the cbtd gets longer. The OP needs to get shorter. That would be a good new product!

Competition Shellholder Sets - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

Reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers, custom dies, bullet casting equipment, powder measuring and weighing equipment, bullet seating dies

www.redding-reloading.com

Basically you set the die up to minimum cbtd. Then you can make it longer by switching shellholders.

BTW, how many loadings on this brass?

 

[bultinkle]

Yea, this happens.

Annealing is your solution. Sorry!



It works to hold those out until you anneal. Soon your neck tension will be too wonky to be as consistent.


my guess is the original Anneal was different or they changed based on the actual load and pressure they had. How many loadings are on this brass?

What is Pdvdh?

That's not how they work. Basically, 0 is a std shellholder and from there the cbtd gets longer. The OP needs to get shorter. That would be a good new product!

BTW, how many loadings on this brass?

Once fired

 

[Beluebow]

That's not how they work. Basically, 0 is a std shellholder and from there the cbtd gets longer. The OP needs to get shorter. That would be a good new product!

Lol......can you explain how the comp shell holders only work one direction.

 

[4th_point]

When I've experienced no further shoulder setback in spite of turning the die further in the press, the base of the resizing die was bottoming out on the shell holder.
I had to remove some material off the bottom of the resizing die. Or shave some material off the top of the shell holder.

Once the base of the die contacts the top face of the shell holder, you won't get any further shoulder setback when screwing the die down further in the press.

Otherwise, the shoulder should be set back further, by lowering the die in the press. No brass case shoulder is tough enough to not shove back, when rammed up into a hardened steel resizing die.

I agree with this post.

I had a batch of Lapua 7mm-08 brass that behaved exactly as the OP described. Most resized fine but a handful did not.

Annealing made zero difference.

I had to remove material off of the bottom of the die. Once I did that, all cases chambered fine.

At first I thought it was excessive expansion near the case head, but it was the shoulder not getting bumped.

 

[pdog shooter]

My experience with new Lapua is it is not fully annealed as one would think. Apparently they do some forming after the last anneal because it sure needs annealing before loading the first time. If you are loading for Precision then must anneal. Fortunately today there are inexpensive options for flame annealing. I love my AMP but they are not cheap. I lived for years torch annealing with a homemade setup.

build your own AMP

 

[Straight Shooter]

Insert a case and look with a borescope how much distance you have to the chamber wall. You might see you don't have to trim as much as you think.

^^^^^This

 

[4th_point]

These cases have resistance to rechambered and im reloading for a family member to hunt with. I don't want resistance and am willing to give up minor accuracy and case life for that comfort in this scenario.

That's a safe plan for a hunting rifle.

I have seen bolt lugs gall, as someone pointed out earlier, from too much interference at the shoulder. And it can happen quickly with dry lugs.

Easy to check with a Sharpie, where the interference is. Base or shoulder in the chamber, or base in the die. If you mark the shoulder and resize, but don't see interference at the shoulder with the die then you know what the problem is.

I would not anneal the shoulder.

 

[ChrisInKY]

Screwed the die in past camming. Held for 2-3 seconds, no change.

Found a couple more fired cases from that chamber, backed die out to normal bump setting, no issues.

Idk guess these go in the twilight zone bucket

First of all: Good on you for checking!! Check every case like that every time and you'll go far.

Now, I haven't seen it said so far ... and you said it first ... Twilight Zone.

No matter what, there will ALWAYS be some cases that don't bump as you would expect them to. You mess around enough you will find it is ALWAYS the same cases that do this. You can separate them into batches for consistency.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the Redding Competition Shellholders. Those shellholders WILL bump the shoulders back to where you want them to be (or within .001 depending).

 

[DoneNOut]

First of all: Good on you for checking!! Check every case like that every time and you'll go far.

YUP

Now, I haven't seen it said so far ... and you said it first ... Twilight Zone.

No matter what, there will ALWAYS be some cases that don't bump as you would expect them to. You mess around enough you will find it is ALWAYS the same cases that do this. You can separate them into batches for consistency.

YUP

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the Redding Competition Shellholders. Those shellholders WILL bump the shoulders back to where you want them to be (or within .001 depending).

That was me and it's refreshing to read this!