So many options, need advice

[HARPERC]

Rogue watchman
I don't know how to post a link, but over @ AccurateShooter.com prowl around a bit, and you'll find an article (with data) that tested .30-06 and .308 at 1000 yards. The old 06 came out on top. Not head and shoulders but enough to demonstrate it's credibility.
I'm loading mine with 220 grain Nosler partitions currently, as it's what I carry as I continue my quest to call a big black bear in close. More room in the long action, more powder capacity = a bit more punch. (I know the 35 Whelen's better suited to this work)
It's not a quantum leap ahead of the .308. In some applications (military, semi-auto, etc)
I would give the edge to the .308, but for a hunter that handloads a bolt action rifle the edge goes to the .30-06, just as the H&H, WSM, WinMag, Weatherbies x 2, and the RUM, have an advantage over smaller capacity .30 calibers. Lot's of horses in the race, of the 2 you asked us to bet on I picked the .30-06 for the intended stated use. If the original question was about law enforcement, or how many rounds I could hump to a firefight I'd answer .308. The .308 is a very good cartridge that I would not disparage, or disrespect you for choosing it. Just a preference.

 

[Good]

If you are dead set on a 30 cal then I'd go with 300 RUM or a step down in 300 Win Mag.

My bro in law just bought a 300 Win Mag in Savage 112BVSS and I love it! Remingtons are great also. A friend has an untouched 300RUM Rem Sendero, well, it has a McMillan A5 and brake, but the action is all factory, and it shoots heavy bullets lights out.

I would get a Savage long action, put a trigger and brake on it, and shoot it, except it would be in a 7mm chambering, like the 7RUM. I'm not a 30 cal fan. It's a matter of opinion, but the 7 shooting heavies will do anything a 30 cal will do on the game you're hunting at extended ranges with more energy and less wind drift. 7Allen Mag would be a dream!

Then in the future, if you get into it and go hunt moose or whatever, build a big gun in 375/408CT or something similar and have a battery.

My goal is to shoot the highest BC bullets at the fastest speeds I can, to take as many variables (wind drift) out of the equation as I can. My $.02 worth for a fellow paintslinger!

 

[RogueWatchmen]

Rogue watchman
I don't know how to post a link, but over @ AccurateShooter.com prowl around a bit, and you'll find an article (with data) that tested .30-06 and .308 at 1000 yards. The old 06 came out on top. Not head and shoulders but enough to demonstrate it's credibility.
I'm loading mine with 220 grain Nosler partitions currently, as it's what I carry as I continue my quest to call a big black bear in close. More room in the long action, more powder capacity = a bit more punch. (I know the 35 Whelen's better suited to this work)
It's not a quantum leap ahead of the .308. In some applications (military, semi-auto, etc)
I would give the edge to the .308, but for a hunter that handloads a bolt action rifle the edge goes to the .30-06, just as the H&H, WSM, WinMag, Weatherbies x 2, and the RUM, have an advantage over smaller capacity .30 calibers. Lot's of horses in the race, of the 2 you asked us to bet on I picked the .30-06 for the intended stated use. If the original question was about law enforcement, or how many rounds I could hump to a firefight I'd answer .308. The .308 is a very good cartridge that I would not disparage, or disrespect you for choosing it. Just a preference.

No no, I'm looking for experianced insight so any and all opinions are welcome Truth be told I'm not looking to be running into any live combat anytime soon, well maybe with that pompous *** in the Whitehouse who knows where this country will end, but either way I'm not loking to get into a firefight hehe. I'm rather large and in decent shape so the added weight of carrying a slightly heavier round isnt an issue to me. If I could afford it I'd shell out for a nice .50 cal (I know some people will say there are better weapons, but lets be honest a .50 Cal is just **** scary to look at)

As for a muzzel break I might look into it if there's not going to be a large gap in price. Is that something that can be added w/o replacing the barrel itself?

One other thing I'm curious about is the laser scoped w/ all the electronics involved. It seems like something handle in principle but when you complicate something I wonder about how reliable it would be. I've not even priced them because I know there out of the question, but just curious.

So what I'm thinking is this:

Savage .30-06 w/ a 6x24x50 scope, but they do not make a .30-06 in the 10FP line that I know of just the .223 and .308. If I decided to go with a .30-06 what would be the best model?

 

[WildRose]

No no, I'm looking for experianced insight so any and all opinions are welcome Truth be told I'm not looking to be running into any live combat anytime soon, well maybe with that pompous *** in the Whitehouse who knows where this country will end, but either way I'm not loking to get into a firefight hehe. I'm rather large and in decent shape so the added weight of carrying a slightly heavier round isnt an issue to me. If I could afford it I'd shell out for a nice .50 cal (I know some people will say there are better weapons, but lets be honest a .50 Cal is just **** scary to look at)

As for a muzzel break I might look into it if there's not going to be a large gap in price. Is that something that can be added w/o replacing the barrel itself?

One other thing I'm curious about is the laser scoped w/ all the electronics involved. It seems like something handle in principle but when you complicate something I wonder about how reliable it would be. I've not even priced them because I know there out of the question, but just curious.

So what I'm thinking is this:

Savage .30-06 w/ a 6x24x50 scope, but they do not make a .30-06 in the 10FP line that I know of just the .223 and .308. If I decided to go with a .30-06 what would be the best model?

You know you'd really do yourself well to go look at the classified ads here.

Guns For Sale - LongRangeHunting Online Magazine

There's some really decent buys there on 30-06's and even 300WM's and some short action magnums as well.

As for glass unless you are shooting Jackrabbits at 800yds or more you really don't necessarily need that much magnification.

For even coyotes out to 800 14x is more than sufficient. If you are on a budget, go for the best quality glass you can afford rather than max magnification and go for 30mm tubes and 44-50 or even 56mm objective lenses. The added light and adjustment range will serve you well.

Being a big guy that doesn't mind packing a load, with your goals the 300WM would really be a fantastic choice. It's just a suped up 30-06 anyhow, and ballistically it's head and shoulders above the .308win.

 

[RogueWatchmen]

I meant to check the sells page, but totally forgot to after I went to the other website that was suggested lol. I'll check out the 300WM though. As for shooting Jack rabbits I'd like to hit something that small because I'd like to shoot not only for hunting but just as sport as well on paper targets and the likes.

 

[WildRose]

I meant to check the sells page, but totally forgot to after I went to the other website that was suggested lol. I'll check out the 300WM though. As for shooting Jack rabbits I'd like to hit something that small because I'd like to shoot not only for hunting but just as sport as well on paper targets and the likes.

Check the cllassifieds over at sniper's hide and sniper central as well. Some really high quality rifles turn up there from time to time at reasonable prices.

I shoot Jackrabbits out to about 750 regularly with my 7mm STW, and all I have on it is a 4.5-14x44 Zeiss Conquest.

For my two new 1000yd+rigs I went with the Zeiss Conquest 6-24x50mm.

The Viper PST is also a great scope for the money if you are on a budget, and again, check the classifieds here.

 

[RogueWatchmen]

I'm looking through the classifieds right now, looks like a lot of the 300 WM/WSM are customized to out of my proce range lol. I'll keep looking through them and might even hit up a pawn shop or 2 this week and see what they have. The savage model 16 is a 300 WSM and I dont see any other model they carry thats in WM/WSM. Might need to revisit the Remington 700 series unless theres another good economical alternative out there.

 

[WildRose]

I'm looking through the classifieds right now, looks like a lot of the 300 WM/WSM are customized to out of my proce range lol. I'll keep looking through them and might even hit up a pawn shop or 2 this week and see what they have. The savage model 16 is a 300 WSM and I dont see any other model they carry thats in WM/WSM. Might need to revisit the Remington 700 series unless theres another good economical alternative out there.

Not exactly sure what your price range is, but there's a nice 300wm Model 70 here.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/couple-rifles-30-378-300-win-mag-73866/

And a decently priced 06 here.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/wts-wtt-remington-700-adl-30-06-cerakoted-74913/

And a nice Remington in 300wm here.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/remington-300-win-mag-75231/

Any of those would give you a reasonably priced rifle to start with that you can customize/upgrade to your heart's desire over time.

 

[backwoods83]

Well some people should get there **** together before they pop off at the mouth, first off the 30-06 was not the first sniper round nor was it originally called a 30-06 it was a 30-03 designed for the 03 springfields and was finalized in 1906 hence the 06. The 45-70 D&H and the 30-40 krag were used as sniper rounds before the 06 was thought of. The 308 is more efficient to shoot than the 06 and if you do not handload there isn't enough difference to matter. Then there is this scope controversy, I've went hunting in wooded area with a 12-42x56 night force and have not had issues as close as 20 yards in low light, with optics its about the quality not the magnification. And before I catch hell know that I shoot and handload both rounds and yes to me the 06 takes the the advantage with a trade off of 10-14grns more powder, but feeding wise the 308 takes the advantage and that's why the military adopted it.

 

[WildRose]

Well some people should get there **** together before they pop off at the mouth, first off the 30-06 was not the first sniper round nor was it originally called a 30-06 it was a 30-03 designed for the 03 springfields and was finalized in 1906 hence the 06. The 45-70 D&H and the 30-40 krag were used as sniper rounds before the 06 was thought of. The 308 is more efficient to shoot than the 06 and if you do not handload there isn't enough difference to matter. Then there is this scope controversy, I've went hunting in wooded area with a 12-42x56 night force and have not had issues as close as 20 yards in low light, with optics its about the quality not the magnification. And before I catch hell know that I shoot and handload both rounds and yes to me the 06 takes the the advantage with a trade off of 10-14grns more powder, but feeding wise the 308 takes the advantage and that's why the military adopted it.

And some people should learn to read before popping off.

I didn't say it was the first sniper rifle. The first sniper rifles were muzzle loaders.

BTW: The 30-03 was not the 30-06 under a different name. The 30-06 uses a different case design.

 

[backwoods83]

Actually you did say that, and I know the difference between a 30-03 and a 30-06 and muzzle loaders were not the first sniper "rifles" because in order to be a rifle it helps if there is rifling in the barrel and there was not, in the days of the Sharpe and Hart muzzle loaders were smooth bore. What are you anyway some exmilitary dude that reads to **** much.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

And some people should learn to read before popping off.

I didn't say it was the first sniper rifle. The first sniper rifles were muzzle loaders.

BTW: The 30-03 was not the 30-06 under a different name. The 30-06 uses a different case design.

He might read too much but he's right, the 30-03 & the 30-06 had different case designs, as well as different bullet weights.

"..Originally, this cartridge was adopted in 1903 along with the model 1903 Springfield rifle. Disignated as the 30-03, military specifications called for a 220 bullet at 2200fps. Severe bore erosion With the nitroglycerin-based powder that was used at the time forced a reduction in velocity to approx. 2000fps. This effectively duplicated the performance of the 30/40 Krag, which it was intended to replace. With Germany's introduction of the revolutionary high-velocity Spitzer loading around 1905, U.S. Ordnance modified the cartridge to keep pace. Reducing the case length slightly, the loading was changed to a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps. Redesignated as the 30-06, it is still the case used today." -Sierra 5th Edition


So I guess I read too much to....

To the OP, the 300WM would be a great choice as stated above, don't modify that old '06, I think you'll regret it later. As far as optics go, I would recommend 14x as the beginning point for max magnification, if you are shooting at 600+ (especially with a 300WM) you will be finding yourself wanting to stretch it out farther & farther, eventually outrunning the 14x. Look at the 6.5x20's which offer a decent balance of low end magnification & acceptable high end ability, as stated above the 30mm main tube is the better choice as well as higher objective diameter (50 or 56).
There is a plethora of reputable manufacturers out there so don't be quick to jump on one (unless you get a smokin deal). Keep your eyes open at those pawn shops as well... you just might be suprised.

 

[RogueWatchmen]

While I'm admittedly a novice in every sense I do believe the comment on the 30-06 being the first sniper round was actually this "The 06 was the first thousand yard sniper caliber. It has taken more game in this country than all other rounds combined largely due to the many millions of them that were sold as surplus after the wars." I didn't verify it being correct, but it does sound like it would be correct. Aside from that lets please not resort to who knows more on the history of which weapon. With anything people are passionate about it can only end up poorly and thats not my intent on this topic.

I'm curious on the Remington 700, someone stated the barrel was "Practicly glued" to the stock I believe it was, who does the bedding and float make it better? I'm not even sure how to google that properly lol.

As for pawn shops I'm going to hit some tomorrow I think, what are some of the things I should keep an eye out for to tell me if it's a stud or a dud lol. I've never owned a new weapon, but given this is something I want for long range I think it needs to be held to a higher standard than when buying it.

 

[WildRose]

Actually you did say that, and I know the difference between a 30-03 and a 30-06 and muzzle loaders were not the first sniper "rifles" because in order to be a rifle it helps if there is rifling in the barrel and there was not, in the days of the Sharpe and Hart muzzle loaders were smooth bore. What are you anyway some exmilitary dude that reads to **** much.

What I am is correct.

The 06 was the first thousand yard sniper caliber. It has taken more game in this country than all other rounds combined largely due to the many millions of them that were sold as surplus after the wars.

The 06 was the first round we had, that was predicably reliable enough to shoot with precision at 1000yds consistently. Thus it was the first "thousand yard sniper round" for the US military.

Rifled barrels also predates the first breech loaders.
​

[edit] Muzzle loading

Main article: Muzzle-loading rifle

Gradually, rifles appeared with cylindrical barrels cut with helical grooves, the surfaces between the grooves being "lands". The innovation shortly preceded the mass adoption of breech-loading weapons, as it was not practical to push an overbore bullet down through a rifled barrel, only to then (try to) fire it back out. The dirt and grime from prior shots was pushed down ahead of a tight bullet or ball (which may have been a loose fit in the clean barrel before the first shot), and, of course, loading was far more difficult, as the lead had to be deformed to go down in the first place, reducing the accuracy due to deformation. Several systems were tried to deal with the problem, usually by resorting to an under-bore bullet that expanded upon firing.

The original muzzle-loading rifle, with a closely fitting ball to take the rifling grooves, was loaded with difficulty, particularly when foul, and for this reason was not generally used for military purposes. Even with the advent of rifling the bullet itself didn't change, but was wrapped in a greased, cloth patch to grip the rifling grooves.
The first half of the 19th century saw a distinct change in the shape and function of the bullet. In 1826 Delvigne, a French infantry officer, invented a breech with abrupt shoulders on which a spherical bullet was rammed down until it caught the rifling grooves. Delvigne's method, however, deformed the bullet and was inaccurate.
Soon after, the Carabine à tige was invented by Louis-Etienne de Thouvenin, which provided for a stem at the bottom at the barrel that would deform and expand the base of the bullet when rammed, therefore enabling accurate contact with the rifling. However, the area around the stem would clog and get dirty easily.

Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


But yes I am also an "ex Army Dude" who does a lot of reading. I've done lots of reading AND lots of shooting over the years.