Sightron vs. Nightforce vs. Leupold

[uncleB]

UB and Links, I'm not getting into a ****ing match. All I can tell you you is of the 3 scopes mentioned the Leupold line tracks the worst of the 3. No questions asked. I spend many days a year at several ranges. If you click a NF or Sightron 4 clicks, it moves 4 clicks the first shot. Some of the Leupolds will, some won't, probably a 50/50 split. If you have a hard time with this go to some of the other furums and read a bit. You will find out fast that it's not only me that has this problem.

P.S. I still have Leupold scopes.

Rob

Brocksdad,
I dont want to get into a "****ing match" with you either so for this post I will come to your level. my name is jordansdad.
In 1970 I was 12years old and took my fathers rifle (while he was sleeping) and shot my first deer with a Leupold 2x7 vari-XIIc, since then I must admit I have been a Leupold fan but in 38years since that time I have not had one leupold scope fail (except when I was 18yrs old and cart wheeled down a hill with my rifle and my big brothers rifle, and broke both in half. Leupold fixed both for FREE).

In 2004 me and my nephew (goodgrouper) had a quest to see how far we could push the limits of how far we could shoot a varmint, we had pretty good success but we have a friend that had a sightron scope that wanted to stretch his limits as well. all 3 of us found out that the sightron was a pile of $$$HHHIIITTT!!!!
The next year our friend got into the VHA 1000yd club quite easily with no other modification than switching from sightron to leupold.
My point is Leupold was a great scope 38 years ago and it is now, sightron was a piece of crap 4 years ago and great (by your opinion now) but what will it be 4 years from now???
I know Leupy will still be good you cant say the same.
Jordansdad

 

[Eaglet]

UncleB,

Finally I get to know your name!!! I've known of you and your nephew for many years now, but not until today I get to know your name. It sure isn't a common name. Nice "meeting" you!

 

[Brocksdad]

jordansdad,

You will get no argument out of me when it comes to Sightron being a poor scope. The SI and SII are not very favorable kinda like the 200.00 Rifleman, the SIIB and SIII are not in the same league, there in a league of their own. I own at the time a new 2.5-8X36 VXIII that the erector cam loose on after 105 shots over a mid weight 300 WSM as in most cases, everybody has there ups and downs. I will not argue that Leupold makes a good scope as I own a VX-7 and like it very much. It's competitive to an extent with some of the upper tier scopes.

My gripe about Leupold is the sub par glass. Why for the money can they not make a scope that has good glass? Take a look at the 4200 vs VXIII scenerio. The 4200 trumps the VXIII in clarity, resolution at what, about 1/2 the cost!!

Many people rave about the Leupold CS and Warranty, most all scopes have the same warranty as Leupold and many have CS to match. With the Leupold, you should get great customer service because with the inflated price you have paid for the scope, the money over and above a normal price has paid for your warranty time and time again.

Yes I will get flames for this post but, who really cares.

You raise the question as to " where will Sightron be in 4 years" well, buy the way they have advanced in 2-3 years, who knows, we may be looking at another top tier company such as Ziess or Swaro!!! You ask question, you get answers.

Last but not least, you again talk about service. In this post or another, I stated what Sightron did in the way of CS when I tested them. They sent me a new scope next day air to my doorstep, told me to send in the faulty scope when I returned form my trip.

So, what do you want?

Quality Products (Clarity, Good Reticles, Lack of flare)
Reliable Products ( Good Tracking, Something you can trust on any hunt)
Customer Service (Good)
Non overinflated prices
Price vs Performance

As stated before, there are many scopes out there that will give you all the above at a decent price.

Pick you Poison!!

Rob

 

[linksmechanic]

How do you justify your "overinflated prices statement"? When you decide to step up and buy a quality product in america your gonna pay for it. I noticed you didn't mention this statement with other brands just the leupold. I think leupolds price on mark 4's is a fair price especially when you compare to other high end scopes. Yes I know some products leupold makes are made oversees(rangefinders,binos ect.) but not there rifle scopes. I've had this conversation on this forum before and I respect your opinion. I just don't see the point. I'm not gonna bet my hunting season on a scope that's been out a year to one that's been out for at least 12 and in the hands of this counties military.

 

[Brocksdad]

OK , so here's the question : If I take an 8-32X 56 Sightron S III , Nightforce BR 8-32X 56 , and a LR Leupold 8.5- 25X 50 out to the Prairie Dog Fields on a nice sunny day , and set all three at 25X , how much difference in Optical Resolution / Sharpness am I going to see ??? ..... a whole lot , some , not much , or none ??? It would also be useful if you rated them in order . TIA .

1) Nightforce/Sightron
3) Leupold

Enough said

Rob

 

[Pdvdh]

jordansdad,


My gripe about Leupold is the sub par glass. Why for the money can they not make a scope that has good glass? Take a look at the 4200 vs VXIII scenerio. The 4200 trumps the VXIII in clarity, resolution at what, about 1/2 the cost!!

With the Leupold, you should get great customer service because with the inflated price you have paid for the scope, the money over and above a normal price has paid for your warranty time and time again.

As stated before, there are many scopes out there that will give you all the above at a decent price.

Rob

Agreed. Leupold's warranty service is priced into their scopes. Either that or Leupold is paying way too much for the quality of the glass they put in their scopes. I tend to agree that they're overpriced compared to the glass you can get in other scopes for substantially less money. I can't speak to their Mark 4s, but that's been my experience in their VX IIIs and below.

 

[ScottBerish]

Guys,

Leupold riflescopes aren't made in the USA anymore, and haven't been for quite some time. I have a new Mark 4 MR/T 2.5-8x36 and a 3.5-10x40 LR/T with nary a mark on them as to where they are made. Not even on the box. If they could legally claim Made in the USA then why wouldn't they?? Check out your Cabela's catalog. The Leupold riflescope section used to say "Made in the USA", until a couple of years ago, when it said "Crafted in the USA", now it says NOTHING. Silence speaks VOLUMES.

Asian labor is cheap, thus the correct reference to overinflated prices. The Rifleman scope is made in China and costs about $20 per scope. Sells for $199. Is that a value? The Mark 4 cost about $300-$400 to make, but sell for over 1K. Good scope? Sure. Good value? Nope.

Products, like people, tend to be verbs. Your Made in the USA Lupy of 1972 is completely different from a modern Lupy. Brand loyalty is fine. But if you are not up to speed then it's blind loyalty.

Scott

 

[WyoRanchHand]

I emailed Leupold yesterday about where the Mark 4 scope are made. This is their reply.
----------------------------------------------------
Leupold Customer Service
Product Specialist Group
Phone (503) 526-1400
Reference Call #

Caller: - David Hooks
Phone:
Summary: reply

David, Mark 4 scopes are made here in the US
Support CallID: %#%82b3e11e-0541-447b-8017-a203cde91f6c%#%

 

[ScottBerish]

I emailed Leupold yesterday about where the Mark 4 scope are made. This is their reply.
----------------------------------------------------
Leupold Customer Service
Product Specialist Group
Phone (503) 526-1400
Reference Call #

Caller: - David Hooks
Phone:
Summary: reply

David, Mark 4 scopes are made here in the US
Support CallID: %#%82b3e11e-0541-447b-8017-a203cde91f6c%#%

Ask him why they don't mark the scope tubes or the box with the this information, if it's true. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Scott

 

[Brocksdad]

They (Leupold) are assembled in the U.S.A.

The bells on some models are outsourced, all the glass is outsourced.

Nightforce (assembled in the U.S.A.)
Zeiss Conquest (assembled in the U.S.A)
Burris Upper Lines (assembled in the U.S.A)

Rob

 

[ScottBerish]

They (Leupold) are assembled in the U.S.A.

The bells on some models are outsourced, all the glass is outsourced.

Nightforce (assembled in the U.S.A.)
Zeiss Conquest (assembled in the U.S.A)
Burris Upper Lines (assembled in the U.S.A)

Rob

Rob,

Do you mean the tubes? As they are one piece tubes, I don't understand the "bells" being outsourced.

So are the erector assemblies made in the USA or imported as whole units?

Finally, what does it take to be legal to say "Made in the USA". Assembly, collimation, sealing and purging would seem to qualify, especially if only the glass is outsourced.

If American scope companies are truly being screwed by Draconian labeling laws that mislead the public I'll be the first to recant.

Thanks for your input.

Scott

 

[Brocksdad]

Scott, in saying the bells, I do mean the tubes. Some are machined in the states by Leupold.

As for the glass, all glass is purchased from outer rim countries and coated by Leupold.

Erector assemblies, some are imported (lower end) and some are manufactured here (higher end)

As far as legality, there used to be a 65/45 law on any good manufactured or imported into the U.S.A. The U.A.W. put an end to that and we have what we have.....Are there laws to govern what can go on a box? Yes. Do we really know what that law is until it gets protested or goes to court? No. Case Law changes on a daily basis with what is the precedent at that given time. Precedent usually over rules law.

Do as they do in China, make whatever you want to make, label it any way you want to, and sell it for as much as you can.

If anybody feels as though there going to get a straight answer form a business, have fun.

Rob

 

[WyoRanchHand]

Scott, in saying the bells, I do mean the tubes. Some are machined in the states by Leupold.

As for the glass, all glass is purchased from outer rim countries and coated by Leupold.

Erector assemblies, some are imported (lower end) and some are manufactured here (higher end)

As far as legality, there used to be a 65/45 law on any good manufactured or imported into the U.S.A. The U.A.W. put an end to that and we have what we have.....Are there laws to govern what can go on a box? Yes. Do we really know what that law is until it gets protested or goes to court? No. Case Law changes on a daily basis with what is the precedent at that given time. Precedent usually over rules law.

Do as they do in China, make whatever you want to make, label it any way you want to, and sell it for as much as you can.

If anybody feels as though there going to get a straight answer form a business, have fun.

Rob

Would you consider the Mark 4 to be "higher end?" If the major parts (other than the glass) are made and assembled here, is it "Made in the USA?"

 

[tulku]

Ouch.....I'm learning things here , but I'm also getting a headache . I have some older Leupolds fixed and 8.5-25 LRs . Bottom line : If I go to buy a used Leupold LR or for that matter a Nightforce BR , are there any telltail visable features which separate the better ones ( Resolution and Tracking wise ) from the not so good ones ???