01Foreman400
Well-Known Member
The extra weight of the suppressor alone helps with recoil.
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Shooting Suppressed - Improved Accuracy
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TRG65
Well-Known Member
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I like shooting with a suppressor better because there is less noise and concussion over the brakes I used previously. However, the suppressor can make a difference. I developed a load for a rifle using one suppressor that was very heavy and worked with a specific brake. Then went to a lighter, shorter, 1.5" diameter, direct thread and the load got worse. Recently, I tried a suppressor that was about the same length, very slightly different in weight, but 1.75", and direct thread. The groups became awesome, better than what it was shooting when I worked up the load.
IMO there is improvement across the board for many because the subconscious brain function operates outside of our control and much out of our awareness.
Whether it is a brake or suppressor, the recoil reduction doesn't affect the recoil impulse before the bullet leaves the barrel, so any change happens from something relating to harmonics or the reduction in concussion/noise.
When you take away the effects of muzzle blast/concussion from a brake and the noise to the ear (even muffed and plugged) your brain registers the event much differently. Reflexes and startle responses to noise and concussion might be dampened by experience and effort, but never eliminated.
I personally think the flinch of recoil on big rifles has more to do with the greater noise/concussion than the physical force. I can shoot suppressed big boomers better suppressed than braked. The physical force does less when suppressed and I can mentally focus and just know it will move.
Some people have bigger or smaller responses, so the amount of improvement can depend on the shooter. I get headaches and don't like the concussion, so I think my subconscious flinches on brakes after shooting them a couple times. After shooting only suppressed, when I go back to a braked rifle, I don't feel like I have the flinch at first, but if I shoot it enough my subconscious nervous system starts to build up "defenses" and anticipation.
Shooting is a mentally intensive task and we know the smallest movements on the trigger and support can move the rifle. Flinch before and in the nanosecond after the shot before the bullet leaves the muzzle moves the POI. Just shooting suppressed changes the event for the brain.
As for a physical effect on the gun, not shooter dependent, gun by gun the harmonics can change depending on the weight and barrel stiffness, but in my experience suppressors haven't changed any one rifle drastically. I think that is much less common.
Whether it is a brake or suppressor, the recoil reduction doesn't affect the recoil impulse before the bullet leaves the barrel, so any change happens from something relating to harmonics or the reduction in concussion/noise.
When you take away the effects of muzzle blast/concussion from a brake and the noise to the ear (even muffed and plugged) your brain registers the event much differently. Reflexes and startle responses to noise and concussion might be dampened by experience and effort, but never eliminated.
I personally think the flinch of recoil on big rifles has more to do with the greater noise/concussion than the physical force. I can shoot suppressed big boomers better suppressed than braked. The physical force does less when suppressed and I can mentally focus and just know it will move.
Some people have bigger or smaller responses, so the amount of improvement can depend on the shooter. I get headaches and don't like the concussion, so I think my subconscious flinches on brakes after shooting them a couple times. After shooting only suppressed, when I go back to a braked rifle, I don't feel like I have the flinch at first, but if I shoot it enough my subconscious nervous system starts to build up "defenses" and anticipation.
Shooting is a mentally intensive task and we know the smallest movements on the trigger and support can move the rifle. Flinch before and in the nanosecond after the shot before the bullet leaves the muzzle moves the POI. Just shooting suppressed changes the event for the brain.
As for a physical effect on the gun, not shooter dependent, gun by gun the harmonics can change depending on the weight and barrel stiffness, but in my experience suppressors haven't changed any one rifle drastically. I think that is much less common.
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Now I am wondering if my issue with recoil is more noise than the recoil. Might need to borrow a rifle with a bigger caliber and do some testing. Thank you for the insight.
Cool, hope you figure some stuff out.
As you play with the question, consider there are two points and ways recoil affects us.
One is the mental- our brain/nervous system has automatic pathways that we cannot completely suppress with consciousness, practice or training.
The other is the physical movement before the bullet leaves the barrel.
Imagine a lever, 100 yards on one side and 2 feet on the other of the fulcrum. If you move the 100 yard lever one inch, how much would it move at the end of the 2 foot section???
Another way, if one moa is about 1.0 inch at 300 feet (100 yards) how big is one moa at 1 foot?
1"/300= 0.00333 inch.
So, if recoil or a flinch moves my buttstock before the bullet leaves the barrel, the point of aim is now high and/or moved lateral before the barrel leaves the bullet.
I am not able to control my nervous system to eliminate flinch that moves a light rifle.
That's my thoughts on the subject, to give you something to think about as you experiment.
My rifles with brakes one are much louder than with brakes off, yet the recoil is less with the brake. Singnifacantly.
It's amazing the way brake technology has advanced. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it's so nice to be able to spot shots. The brakes practically stop recoil.
It's something to consider, because recoil starts before the bullet leaves the barrel, so the shooter has to manage it for the fraction of a second. The bullet accelerates forward faster, but it's pushing the rifle back until it leaves the bore.
The rifle already has the majority of momentum when the bullet leaves the bore. The rifle is moving rearward with the momentum from the bullet pushing off, then when the bullet pops out, the gasses push forward on the brake ports as it escapes. The flow of gasses pushing on the ports is what stops the rifle moving rearward.
Just like the bullet is up to full speed when it leaves the barrel, the rifle is nearly up to full speed too. The gasses leaving the barrel don't impart much energy to the total recoil of the rifle if I recall the science correctly.
That's the thing about the suppressor. Reduced recoil and the lack of concussion from noise, it is a whole different shooting experience. I can literally not imagine shooting a rifle without a brake, anymore. Although, I do have my 30-30, but it is pretty tame.
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
So accuracy or precision? Or both? Not trying to be the word police, but there is a difference between the two. I'm interested as my first suppressor is in jail and I'm curious what my accuracy and precision will look like once a can in added.
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
"Accuracy and precision are both ways to measure results. Accuracy measures how close results are to the true or known value. Precision, on the other hand, measures how close results are to one another. They're both useful ways to track and report on project results."
