SFP or FFP

[Canhunter35]

Correct, opinion indeed. Yet those opinions lead inexperienced people to spend money based on what they read. When they read enough people perpetuate the same myth over and over, they believe it, then end up not trying FFP, and then they parrot the same myth.

Suffice it to say in the vast majority of conditions, the image above would look significantly better and the use of the reticle would even be enhanced. Combine that with the fact that any optic worth its salt has illumination and you quickly realize that FFP optics can be used in nearly any situation that SFP can be used.

Yes, but this is my first hand experience with both sfp and ffp which has led me to my preference. Your argument cuts both ways. Then a person without experience will rush out and buy a ffp scope believing their sfp scope is not good enough or buy a ffp because of ffp fans. Besides someone new into the sport does not need to spend the $ on a scope worth it's "salt" without trying both and deciding what they like.

If your tangent theta has illumination and you've used that feature then my point stands. If ur gonna buy a ffp scope get illumination so your not looking at a deer first thing at dawn and can't see ur crosshairs. Been there done that.

 

[Canhunter35]

To clarify my post about being more accurate with the ffp in windy conditions, what I would do is look at my wind meter and get the speed. From there using my app Ballistics AE, I'd input the wind speed and let it tell me the MOA correction. So for example if I had a 2 MOA wind correction at x distance, I can look at my point of aim and see what it looks like through my reticle of how much the wind is pushing my bullet off of a straight line (wind pushes my bullet toward target) this gave me confidence in seeing that if I was off some on my wind call and still hit the plate I could teach myself in making better wind calls by looking at everything between me and the target. As I said before I'm very green into long range shooting but the ffp has helped me a lot. I do use my sfp more now because I am taking the time to read/dial/shoot. But it's just preference on what you like more. A lot of good knowledge on this site so take full advantage of it and shoot a bunch and in a bunch of different conditions if you can.

http://www.accuracy-tech.com/how-to-read-the-wind-the-ultimate-guide-3/

Check out this sight, 5 parts will help you stream line your wind calls

 

[orkan]

If your tangent theta has illumination and you've used that feature then my point stands.

Then your point doesn't stand. I've never once had to turn on illumination, to my recollection.

Though I could see it possibly on cheap scopes. ... but then we aren't talking about sfp vs ffp, we're talking about good vs bad quality, and those same arguments would be present even if reticle position was entirely ignored.

 

[Canhunter35]

Really, you've never tried out your illumination? Well you should, you might like it!

I'll put it this way, I decided to mount the new leupold vx3 lrp on my creedmoor, I went with sfp impact reticle instead of ffp Tmr. They were nearly the same money, I like both reticles, but went put my money on a sfp scope before ffp. My opinion as a shooter

 

[orkan]

I don't consider $1000 scopes "cheap" for recreational use.
I'll put it this way, I decided to mount the new leupold vx3 lrp on my creedmoor, I went with sfp impact reticle instead of ffp Tmr. They were nearly the same money, I like both reticles, but went put my money on a sfp scope before ffp. My opinion and completely valid as a shooter

While you may not consider $1000 scopes cheap, the fact remains that they are, as a matter of fact, cheap. The "average" price of a long range scope is definitely above $1000, and has been for a very long time.

I don't personally subscribe to the theory that simply having an opinion means anything. If I were in a room full of automotive specialists, I wouldn't expect my opinion on vehicles to carry much weight. While I drive a pickup every day, I certainly wouldn't suggest I know anything about it compared to a room full of full-time mechanics. No one said your opinion wasn't valid. Though to what degree would you consider it valid? When you are thinking of what to purchase for yourself, your opinion is undisputed. You're the authority on what you want. When discussing the merits of a product here in public space, you must demonstrate vast experience in order for your opinion to have value.

Anyone can have an opinion. It isn't hard. Proving your opinion, that's the part that modern society seems to have forgot about. I can prove I have tremendous experience with dozens of SFP and FFP optics, from $300 to $7000 in all manner of conditions, on top of everything from 17 remington to 408 cheytac and just about everything in between. I am also in a position to hear from customers regarding their experiences with FFP after switching to it from SFP. The number one comment from them: "I was hesitant to move to ffp because of all the negative things people say, but now after having one I'll be switching more rifles to ffp." That isn't my opinion. That's a fact.

A great many shooters don't have the money to put toward that kind of quantity of products to find out for themselves how they perform. Therefor the only thing they can do is read others experiences. The internet is chock full of people with almost no FFP experience trying to convince people that it won't work in this situation or that situation. I presently own no fewer than 23 different FFP optics and have purchased, used, and subsequently sold more than I can remember... all within the last 10 years.

So while I respect the fact that you have an opinion, and LRH has allowed you to share that opinion, I'll press you to provide evidence of your experience if you intend to resist my assessment of the situation. Then after we've both demonstrated our experience level and shown our resume's, people can weigh each of our opinions honestly. Would you consider that fair?

 

[Barrelnut]

Yea... That looks OK in a corn field at noon under a wide open sky. But doubt it would be usable in woods, in the rain, at first light, with a dead battery.

I think the one you pick depends on the extremes you most often encounter.

 

[Canhunter35]

From ur pic and what you've said I'm gathering your associated with or own primal rights. You sell tangent theta scopes, they come with illumination, I said get a ffp with illumination so that works out. why else would tangent put it on there if it's not needed?

Now onto creds, I hunt coyotes 2x a week through fall, winter, hunt big game every year. When not hunting I practice all the time on my 600 yd range out my door and when I want to stretch it further I set my targets up wherever I want at any distance on my land. I usually shoot through a case of a 1000 primers every 18 months or so.

I have a mark 4 sfp(preferred scope). Zeiss conquest, sightron s-tac, and Burris veracity. I can totally understand use of ffp in competition and tactical applications, but found on game if I'm making a quick shot it's relatively close usually because most game isn't too worried if I'm 400+ yds away. So I have time to turn it to full magnification. If it's inside of 400, a 3-9x duplex can get-er done. Since this is a hunting forum, and I hunt all the time, I stated I haven't found any reason to need a ffp for hunting.
With those scopes I have, I've taken them out on a full moon night to compare and the sfp crosshairs were visible at low magnification, but the ffp was not. When I cranked all of them up, the image darkened way too much to see anything. (Remember this is middle of the night, full moon) of those four, the mark 4 had the best clarity. If anyone cares.

Those are my arguments why a ffp isn't necessary for hunting, and according to the polls, I'm not alone

 

[orkan]

I said get a ffp with illumination so that works out. why else would tangent put it on there if it's not needed?

At what point did I say they shouldn't have put it on there? I said I haven't needed it.

Poll results? I could hold this same exact poll on a different website and the results would put SFP in last place by a huge margin. So don't go thinking just because it's what people do here that it's the only way to do things.

Since you keep wanting to argue about things I haven't said, I'll leave you to it. People will always try to cling to the past.

 

[Canhunter35]

At what point did I say they shouldn't have put it on there? I said I haven't needed it.

Poll results? I could hold this same exact poll on a different website and the results would put SFP in last place by a huge margin. So don't go thinking just because it's what people do here that it's the only way to do things.

Since you keep wanting to argue about things I haven't said, I'll leave you to it. People will always try to cling to the past.

Aside from the fact we are arguing on a 4 yr old thread, which I find hilarious, you forgot to counter the reasons why I prefer sfp over ffp.

Your argument thus far has been on my experience but you forget an important point. You sell ffp scopes, that makes your opinion biased whereas I only use them. My opinion has no bias.

You're a salesman, sell me on the benefits instead of belittling my opinion and experience.

 

[FlGunner]

http://www.accuracy-tech.com/how-to-read-the-wind-the-ultimate-guide-3/

Check out this sight, 5 parts will help you stream line your wind calls

Thank you Canhunter35, there's a lot of good stuff in that article. Guys like you are why I love this site. Hopefully I can get out and practice some more tomorrow if the rain hold off down here.

 

[Canhunter35]

Thank you Canhunter35, there's a lot of good stuff in that article. Guys like you are why I love this site. Hopefully I can get out and practice some more tomorrow if the rain hold off down here.

Your welcome. Yeah it is a great article. I've tried out Todd hodnetts wind formula and it works great but I like running the 10 mph base line on my dope card better.
Keep shooting!

 

[orkan]

You sell ffp scopes, that makes your opinion biased whereas I only use them. My opinion has no bias.

I'll tolerate quite a lot. When a rookie like you starts attacking my integrity, that's where it ends. I shot, advocated for, and preferred FFP reticles LONG before I was ever selling them. Had you been around for longer than an eye blink, you'd know that.

You have next to no experience with ffp reticles, yet spout blanket statements about what they can or can't do. So I reply with an informative post, with a picture even, proving that what you said was misinformed and would misinform others. Knowing the weight of my experience would crush you, you constantly try to pivot onto things I'm not saying and then try to claim because I sell ffp scopes I'm biased.

It is disgustingly sad that you actually think and operate this way. Yet there is more demand for FFP optics than ever before, and no matter what the ignorant masses think, say, or do... that demand will continue to increase.

You can't stop the truth.

 

[Canhunter35]

I'll tolerate quite a lot. When a rookie like you starts attacking my integrity, that's where it ends. I shot, advocated for, and preferred FFP reticles LONG before I was ever selling them. Had you been around for longer than an eye blink, you'd know that.

You have next to no experience with ffp reticles, yet spout blanket statements about what they can or can't do. So I reply with an informative post, with a picture even, proving that what you said was misinformed and would misinform others. Knowing the weight of my experience would crush you, you constantly try to pivot onto things I'm not saying and then try to claim because I sell ffp scopes I'm biased.

It is disgustingly sad that you actually think and operate this way. Yet there is more demand for FFP optics than ever before, and no matter what the ignorant masses think, say, or do... that demand will continue to increase.

You can't stop the truth.

It's unpleasant being attacked on a forum isn't it?
I suggest you rethink your statement the next time someone else makes a post and you attack them like you did me with my post, which started all this!
There's no reason at all to be rude. This is an open discussion forum about LR hunting.
"Knowing the weight of my experience would crush you"
What's does that even mean? Those types of statements posted on a forum do nothing to welcome new shooters to the community of long range hunting. Try being pleasant.
Have a good day.

 

[orkan]

You think that was me attacking you?

What a joke.