Setting zero for hunting rifle with turrets?

[bultinkle]

Yes you can zero at 100 yards and predial to whatever zero. I see that as all semantics. Which is why I said it's essentially a 200 or 300 yard zero. i can accept "temporary" zero. The reason why I don't do that now, as I have in the past, is the KISS system. And I don't say there is only one way to do anything. There maybe one way that works for an individual for certain circumstances, but generally that doesn't mean it's the best system for all people.

The difference in the two situations is the accuracy of the zero becomes more and more effected by environmental and by chasing noise within the zeroing process.

Doing the 100 then predial presents the situation with fewer possible variables. Especially when people try to zero rifles by chasing around 3 shot groups, the larger your theoretical cone for zeroing the greater possibility you're not exactly centered.

 

[xsn10s]

The difference in the two situations is the accuracy of the zero becomes more and more effected by environmental and by chasing noise within the zeroing process.

Doing the 100 then predial presents the situation with fewer possible variables. Especially when people try to zero rifles by chasing around 3 shot groups, the larger your theoretical cone for zeroing the greater possibility you're not exactly centered.

We can agree to disagree on this due to one factor. Did the shooter predial prior to the hunt? Humans are fallible so they could of forgot to predial, or set the wrong predial between 200 or 300 yard zero. Or maybe the dials aren't reliable enough and get stuck. In any case use the system that works for you. I set certain rifles with a point blank zero. Others I set at 100 yard zero.

 

[Dr. Vette]

All of this...and I'm still keeping my 200 yard zero.

Do whatever works for you, and the key is to use the same system across all of your hunting rifles. Trying to remember which ones are set up for 100 vs 200 just doesn't work.

 

[bultinkle]

We can agree to disagree on this due to one factor. Did the shooter predial prior to the hunt? Humans are fallible so they could have forgot to predial, or set the wrong predial between 200 or 300 yard zero. Or maybe the dials aren't reliable enough and get stuck.

So why have a scope that can dial at all then? In fact, if the scope isn't reliable enough to dial accurately then you should throw it in the garbage can where it belongs

In any case use the system that works for you. I set certain rifles with a point blank zero. Others I set at 100 yard zero

agree

The issue is OP is starting fresh, they don't know what works for them. I think setting up a rig designed and intended to dial for elevation and zeroing it for mpbr is adding needless complications to the system.

 

[LRNut]

When I dial I typically set at 100 yards. But when hunting and I may get a fast shot, or more likely, from 0-300 yards I set the appropriate zero for a point blank shot. That way I can pull up and aim dead on and be within +/- so many inches depending on the vital zone size of my prey. For a custom dial I think that's what I would do. Much the same when I only use a reticle for holdovers. For dialing while using a ballistics app I set 100 yard zero. Either way is fine so pick one that works easiest for you.

I used to do this but now just do everything at 200. The problem with a max PBR zero is half your bullets are going to hit a above the trajectory line and half below (the exact distance is a function of your rifle accuracy, your ability to hold steady, and the range). For example, if the vital area is 10," many hunters believe they can have a max trajectory ordinate of 5." The problem with that is half your shots will be above 5" even if you have a rock steady rest.

Back in the 80s I lived in Alaska and sighted dead on at 400 yards for caribou and sheep. As long as I thought the animal I was shooting was less than 400, I simply put the crosshair on the bottom of the animals chest. This was pre-laser rangefinder days.

 

[xsn10s]

So why have a scope that can dial at all then?

On some of my point blank zero'd rifles I don't dial. Those rifles are delegated for mid range work. On others which I are heavier, accurate enough, and I won't shoot off hand I set up to dial. Like I said earlier it's easier to zero those rifles at 100 yards and dial from there. On my new Remington ADL 7mm rem mag I'll set up in a KRG Bravo and probably do a zero like Lance's. And dial out to whatever distance I need to. If a rifle is too hard to zero at 200 300 yards or whatever poin blank zero then it's probably not accurate enough to be a long range rifle. If a person wants to set up all their rifles with the same zero that's fine. It won't be hard for me to keep track because I know what job each rifle it delegated for. Kinda like how I have my cars and offroad rigs delegated for. We all have to do what works best for us. The OP said most of his shots will be 0-300 yards and will use a "custom dial" for shots out to 700 yards. Which is why i suggested a point blank zero.

 

[xsn10s]

For example, if the vital area is 10," many hunters believe they can have a max trajectory ordinate of 5." The problem with that is half your shots will be above 5" even if you have a rock steady rest.

I set my zone below my vital area zone.

 

[xsn10s]

I used to do this but now just do everything at 200. The problem with a max PBR zero is half your bullets are going to hit a above the trajectory line and half below (the exact distance is a function of your rifle accuracy, your ability to hold steady, and the range). For example, if the vital area is 10," many hunters believe they can have a max trajectory ordinate of 5." The problem with that is half your shots will be above 5" even if you have a rock steady rest.

Back in the 80s I lived in Alaska and sighted dead on at 400 yards for caribou and sheep. As long as I thought the animal I was shooting was less than 400, I simply put the crosshair on the bottom of the animals chest. This was pre-laser rangefinder days.

We all have to use what works for us. I don't set my vital zone at 10", I'm well below any the vital zone of any given game. On yotes I'm below the 6" vital zone. When we bust animals we're in "pre-laser" rangefinder days. Unless you want to dig for the rangefinder as the game or yote is running away.

 

[bultinkle]

Added to my post before I saw you had commented again. Sorry about that, originally it was just what you quoted.

If a rifle is too hard to zero at 200 300 yards or whatever poin blank zero then it's probably not accurate enough to be a long range rifle.

Hmm. I'd like to see some people with rifles zeroed at 300 toss up a paper target at 300 yards and shoot 10 rounds at it and post the pic. No sighters.

It's absolutely possible. But a 5mph crosswind pushes a 180@3k 8 inches at 300. a 1/2moa 3 shot group rifle is going to have a true cone double that. You've now got 3" of bullet noise, plus wind noise you're zeroing with. Toss in another inch of variation from altitude changes if you travel.

I just think it's pointlessly adding variables if you have a dialable scope. And if you must do it, to zero at 100 then dial to 300 and confirm then slip your turret.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

All my Hunting rifles 100 yard zero. Knowing and believing my JBM ballistics I can choose to HOLD OVER, or DIAL, depending on the range. If I'm shooting my short barreled 30-06 , with the 1.5X to 5 X Leupold scope, that means I'm in a wooded aera's and some open pasture and the distance will not ever be more than 200 yards. So that's Hold Over for me. If I'm shooting my .270 Win, that means there is a possibility of a 300 yard shot at max , so at the Max extended range , I would dial up the Leupold 3X to 15X if time permits . I think its important for me to know the ballistic of my rifle and load combo, and double check it at the 200 and 300 yard range to verify that the drop listed in the data, is actually correct. If I'm supposed to be 11 inches low at 300 yards , then that's what I expect to see. Three bullet holes 11 inches low on the paper. I put a sticker target dot at the top of the target and number the 1 inch boxes down to 12 If that is a 3 or 3.5 MOA elevation , then when I turn the elevation dial up that amount, I aim at the center bull of the target and I would expect to see holes in the center of the target. That verifies it for me, and allows me to choose between Hold Over and Dial at the moment of the shot. At ranges beyond 300 yards , out to 1100 yards Its Dial Up the Leupold 8.5X to 25X sitting on the 270 Weatherby Mag , based on the available data. I tested this two years in a row at the bang steel shooting school hitting steel at various range's by dialing up 10 or 12 or 14 MOA ect; depending on the range the instructor called out. It seemed to work very well. I try to select the best Rifle/ Scope / Load combination for the hunting situation I'm expected to encounter. I like having the option in some situations.

 

[memtb]

The difference in the two situations is the accuracy of the zero becomes more and more effected by environmental and by chasing noise within the zeroing process.

Doing the 100 then predial presents the situation with fewer possible variables. Especially when people try to zero rifles by chasing around 3 shot groups, the larger your theoretical cone for zeroing the greater possibility you're not exactly centered.

I think that I've seen you say several times about "Not" zeroing @ ranges over 100…..

The difference in the two situations is the accuracy of the zero becomes more and more effected by environmental and by chasing noise within the zeroing process

I can agree……somewhat! Here's what I do, tell me where I'm in error!

I do my initial load development @ 100 yards. If the load looks promising…..I then shoot that load at 300 yards (my home range maximum). In my mind, this will "help" determine the loads long range potential! I also zero @ 300…..a distance decided upon long before we purchased a range finder.

You mentioned, environmental as a zeroing issue. With having a backyard range…..We have the opportunity to do our range work, load development and zeroing during absolute perfect conditions. If less than perfect conditions….we have dozens of other things to do around the place! In my thought process, "IF" we can shoot good groups at 300 and adjust accordingly, I think that there will be "less" error at longer ranges than with the 100 yard zero! I also think that with the 300 yard zero…..it helps minimize/negate some of the potential error in the dial-up!

Having a home range can fairly closely replicate our anticipated hunting conditions…..temperatures, elavation, and barometric pressure!

We got very comfortable with this system, by using it for nearly 30 years. So, why not continue to use a zero we were comfortable with…..then use the range finder and dial-up for the longer shots. And as mentioned, it affords us the ability to use a "zero stop" turret to take us beyond a range at which we would shoot big game!

Not trying to be argumentative…..just trying to understand theoretical negatives with my system!

Thanking you in advance for your attempts to enlighten me! memtb

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

I have always been a hold over shooter and am now going to use a custom turret on my long range rifle and was wondering what zero to use, most shots are under 300 yds but want to bet able to shoot out to 700yds.

when getting in to a hunting spot I will set at 300 yards and lowest power but most spots I hunt from are over look spots with ranges out to 1000 yards with range cards made so there I set at 100 yards and set scope at highest power and just sit back and glass the movement passes.Last pic is a black bear at 675 yards same spot 3 mose have been taken in the fall

 

[xsn10s]

Added to my post before I saw you had commented again. Sorry about that, originally it was just what you quoted.


Hmm. I'd like to see some people with rifles zeroed at 300 toss up a paper target at 300 yards and shoot 10 rounds at it and post the pic. No sighters.

It's absolutely possible. But a 5mph crosswind pushes a 180@3k 8 inches at 300. a 1/2moa 3 shot group rifle is going to have a true cone double that. You've now got 3" of bullet noise, plus wind noise you're zeroing with. Toss in another inch of variation from altitude changes if you travel.

I just think it's pointlessly adding variables if you have a dialable scope. And if you must do it, to zero at 100 then dial to 300 and confirm then slip your turret.

Not sure why this is such an issue. You can set a whatever zero by shooting at 100 yards and then adjusting up. And then set the target at say 215 yards and then shoot again. If you cannot hit a 300 yard target like you said then the person shouldn't be hunting at longer ranges anyways. My last three badger were two badgers at 145 yards with point blank AR15 and 659 yard coldbore badger with my 260 AI. That 260 AI I did a 533 yard headshot coldbore.

 

[bultinkle]

And then set the target at say 215 yards and then shoot again. If you cannot hit a 300 yard target like you said then the person shouldn't be hunting at longer ranges anyways. My last three badger were two badgers at 145 yards with point blank AR15 and 659 yard coldbore badger with my 260 AI. That 260 AI I did a 533 yard headshot coldbore.

This isn't about can you hit a target at 300 yards. This is about when you are zeroing how many variables are you adding to your system. And is your zero actually dead on at 300 or is it actually 1+ moa left at 300.

If you zero in a situation with no environmental pressure, and do it well. And then dial to 300 it's not an issue. I don't like to do it, but it's still an initial zero in a "vacuum" of no conditions. I'm talking about people that get on target at say 50/100 whatever and then do all their zeroing at 300. They end up chasing tails all over and zeroing for the day they are at the range. I've watched people do this and their zero is actually 1 moa left because they didn't realize they are zeroing for Tuesday may 8s wind condition.