Scope power for 1,760y ?

[yorke-1]

an anomaly, certainly not normal, nor average. glad it works for you.

It's not as uncommon as you may think. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards with a 14x scope is still a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards in a 14x scope. I think most people do pretty well seeing a 1" dot at 100 yards on 14x. Seeing a 17-18" (elk kill zone size) target at 1 mile is no different assuming the shooter uses quality optics. Certainly everyone can agree that a March scope on 15x is far superior to a BSA scope on 32x. The quality of the glass is more important than the magnification.

If the OP has a $2000 budget (based on his interest in the Burris XTR III), I'd just look for the highest quality optic I could find in that price range. If that meant dropping down in magnification to get higher quality glass then that's what I'd do. I've never even looked through the Burris XTR II so I'm not sure what the glass is like on the XTR III. Maybe it's an exceptional optic that's entirely functional throughout it's power range under average conditions where the OP shoots at. If that's the case then crank the power up as much as possible.

 

[Kampfjager]

It's not as uncommon as you may think. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards with a 14x scope is still a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards in a 14x scope. I think most people do pretty well seeing a 1" dot at 100 yards on 14x. Seeing a 17-18" (elk kill zone size) target at 1 mile is no different assuming the shooter uses quality optics. Certainly everyone can agree that a March scope on 15x is far superior to a BSA scope on 32x. The quality of the glass is more important than the magnification.

If the OP has a $2000 budget (based on his interest in the Burris XTR III), I'd just look for the highest quality optic I could find in that price range. If that meant dropping down in magnification to get higher quality glass then that's what I'd do. I've never even looked through the Burris XTR II so I'm not sure what the glass is like on the XTR III. Maybe it's an exceptional optic that's entirely functional throughout it's power range under average conditions where the OP shoots at. If that's the case then crank the power up as much as possible.

This is a good point... 1" target at 100y is no different than a 17.6" target at 1 mile...

 

[SavageHunter11]

It's not as uncommon as you may think. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards with a 14x scope is still a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards in a 14x scope. I think most people do pretty well seeing a 1" dot at 100 yards on 14x. Seeing a 17-18" (elk kill zone size) target at 1 mile is no different assuming the shooter uses quality optics. Certainly everyone can agree that a March scope on 15x is far superior to a BSA scope on 32x. The quality of the glass is more important than the magnification.

If the OP has a $2000 budget (based on his interest in the Burris XTR III), I'd just look for the highest quality optic I could find in that price range. If that meant dropping down in magnification to get higher quality glass then that's what I'd do. I've never even looked through the Burris XTR II so I'm not sure what the glass is like on the XTR III. Maybe it's an exceptional optic that's entirely functional throughout it's power range under average conditions where the OP shoots at. If that's the case then crank the power up as much as possible.

Finally someone who knows its more about glass quality rather than magnification

 

[ar10ar15man]

that is mechanically true, but in real life you have atmosphere between you and the object you are trying to see. so it is not really the same to your vision.
not everyone's vision is the same so not all will see the same. the guy claiming 14x is ideal for HIM is an example.

This is a good point... 1" target at 100y is no different than a 17.6" target at 1 mile...

 

[del2les]

This is a good point... 1" target at 100y is no different than a 17.6" target at 1 mile...

But how many of us shoot at that 1" dot at 100 with a 1x scope? While I do with a few 1x pistol scopes, usually a rifle scope is always at a higher setting for improved viewing and groupings.

So if 1" is 1 power, why would one want less at 1,760 (18x)? If mirage or other weather factors are not impeding, I will always go with a high magnification than 1x per moa
At LR, I prefer a 1 1/2 to 2x moa magnification and that may depend on the target size.

P-dogs and marmots at LR are tiny targets that, for me and many, require quality optics and higher magnification. Personally, that translates into larger targets at longer ranges.

YMMV

 

[Kampfjager]

But how many of us shoot at that 1" dot at 100 with a 1x scope? While I do with a few 1x pistol scopes, usually a rifle scope is always at a higher setting for improved viewing and groupings.

So if 1" is 1 power, why would one want less at 1,760 (18x)? If mirage or other weather factors are not impeding, I will always go with a high magnification than 1x per moa
At LR, I prefer a 1 1/2 to 2x moa magnification and that may depend on the target size.

P-dogs and marmots at LR are tiny targets that, for me and many, require quality optics and higher magnification. Personally, that translates into larger targets at longer ranges.

YMMV

I didnt say we shoot at 1" dots at 100y on 1 power? Not sure where your going with this

 

[del2les]

It's not as uncommon as you may think. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards with a 14x scope is still a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards in a 14x scope. I think most people do pretty well seeing a 1" dot at 100 yards on 14x. Seeing a 17-18" (elk kill zone size) target at 1 mile is no different assuming the shooter uses quality optics. Certainly everyone can agree that a March scope on 15x is far superior to a BSA scope on 32x. The quality of the glass is more important than the magnification.

If the OP has a $2000 budget (based on his interest in the Burris XTR III), I'd just look for the highest quality optic I could find in that price range. If that meant dropping down in magnification to get higher quality glass then that's what I'd do. I've never even looked through the Burris XTR II so I'm not sure what the glass is like on the XTR III. Maybe it's an exceptional optic that's entirely functional throughout it's power range under average conditions where the OP shoots at. If that's the case then crank the power up as much as possible.

I think it is very uncommon. To begin, VERY few people shoot at 1 mile and I mean really practice or compete at with any fashsion. Extremely few have ever shot at an elk or other living animal at that range.

Of the few mile shoots we have had and those I have attended, I have yet to see any scopes or setting below 20x with most higher.

Just an observation

 

[del2les]

I didnt say we shoot at 1" dots at 100y on 1 power? Not sure where your going with this

Pointing out a flaw with a simple math calc. If we do not shoot at Moa targets with 1x at 100, why would we want to use that or SMALLER mag at 1,760 (18x)?

Just an old man's opinion

 

[Kampfjager]

Pointing out a flaw with a simple math calc. If we do not shoot at Moa targets with 1x at 100, why would we want to use that or SMALLER at 1,760?

Gotcha, totally agree....

 

[del2les]

Target perception at range:

A 1 moa target @ 100 yds sighted with a 1x scope equals a 1 moa target @ 1,000 yds sighted with a 10x scope. Similarly, an moa @ 1,760 with an 18x scope.

If you sight the same 1 moa @ 100 yds with a 4x scope, you need a 40x @ 1,000 to achieve the same scale on an moa target (10").

At 1,760, you would need....?

 

[yorke-1]

I think it is very uncommon. To begin, VERY few people shoot at 1 mile and I mean really practice or compete at with any fashsion. Extremely few have ever shot at an elk or other living animal at that range.

Of the few mile shoots we have had and those I have attended, I have yet to see any scopes or setting below 20x with most higher.

Just an observation

I used the kill zone of an elk as a reference just because this is a hunting forum and the scale was appropriate for an MOA size target at 1 mile.

I absolutely recognize that I have a slightly different approach to ELR shooting. I do a lage percentage of my 1 mile shooting with specialty pistols which work best with optics set at about 14-16x.

Target perception at range:

A 1 moa target @ 100 yds sighted with a 1x scope equals a 1 moa target @ 1,000 yds sighted with a 10x scope. Similarly, an moa @ 1,760 with an 18x scope.

If you sight the same 1 moa @ 100 yds with a 4x scope, you need a 40x @ 1,000 to achieve the same scale on an moa target (10").

At 1,760, you would need....?

No one is recommending using 1x magnification to shoot at a 1" target at 100 yards, the discussion was about a 1 MOA target. I said that a 1 MOA target is the same relative size at any range given the same magnification. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards through a 14x scope will appear the same size in the scope as a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards with 14x magnification. We're dealing with angular measurements, so the scale stays them same regardless of distance.

 

[yorke-1]

that is mechanically true, but in real life you have atmosphere between you and the object you are trying to see. so it is not really the same to your vision.
not everyone's vision is the same so not all will see the same. the guy claiming 14x is ideal for HIM is an example.

That atmospheric distortion is precisely why optical clarity is more important than than magnification. Cranking up the magnification will only amplify the distortion.

 

[ar10ar15man]

ACTUALLY if you read it says ..".and SHOOTING"
there are lots of just shooters, non-hunters in the world.
which makes conversations difficult sometimes as people are looking from THEIR VIEW, not that of the op.
this thread is a perfect example..the op nade no mention of hunting at 1 mile.

I used the kill zone of an elk as a reference just because this is a hunting forum and the scale was appropriate for an MOA size target at 1 mile.

I absolutely recognize that I have a slightly different approach to ELR shooting. I do a lage percentage of my 1 mile shooting with specialty pistols which work best with optics set at about 14-16x.


No one is recommending using 1x magnification to shoot at a 1" target at 100 yards, the discussion was about a 1 MOA target. I said that a 1 MOA target is the same relative size at any range given the same magnification. A 1 MOA target at 100 yards through a 14x scope will appear the same size in the scope as a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards with 14x magnification. We're dealing with angular measurements, so the scale stays them same regardless of distance.

 

[yorke-1]

ACTUALLY if you read it says ..".and SHOOTING"
there are lots of just shooters, non-hunters in the world.
which makes conversations difficult sometimes as people are looking from THEIR VIEW, not that of the op.
this thread is a perfect example..the op nade no mention of hunting at 1 mile.

It wasn't a commentary on hunting at one mile, just a comment tying in hunting to the conversation since it works out that an elk kill zone happens to be about 1 MOA at 1 mile.

Regardless of the specific details of the target, the same logic applies. Shooting at a 1 MOA target at 100 yards with a 14x optic is the same as shooting at a 1 MOA target at 1760 yards with a 14x optic. Maybe I'll go back and edit my post to say watermelon instead of elk so that I'm not derailing the thread.