School me on detached front rest shooting!

[willyqbc]

Howdy all! Looooong time lurker, first time poster. Lookin to tap into the knowledge here around precision long range shooting!

so here goes....

Having recently completed the sub MOA 300yd challenge ( by the skin of my teeth), first thought through my mind was that i need to do it better. Lots of folks here and other places seem to think the detached front rest system is more accurate than the lead slead....so I figure I better give it a try!

Picked up a "rock jr" as I figured all the extra gucci adjustments weren't needed for my level of shooting. Found the bag to be quite sloppy with just the velrco, so made a cradle for it to firm it up and bolted it on to the rest.

Also found the height of both front rest and a rear bag I had to be way too low for me and very uncomfortable, so shimmed them up to a comfortable height.

Off to the range this morning to try it out and get a feel for it....this is how I'm set up

Fired three 5 shot groups at 110....center group was one hand on rifle, barely any pressure on my shoulder, top left was one hand and firmly shouldered, top right was both hands, firmly holding the rifle

Not the result I was expecting

.
all shots, felt very still and solid, and I felt like I stayed with each one through the follow through. Off the lead slead, this load has shown to be a pretty consistant 3/4" ish, with single digit SD. So like most things, I can only assume some operator error has resulted in these groups.

This is where all you knowledgeable shooters come in....What are the tricks of the trade to achieve precision in this sort of rest arrangement?

Thanks in advance
Chris

 

[Deputy819]

I have seen loads shot from a lead-sled group well....and then I've seen those same loads shot from the same rifle, but instead from sand-bags and it turns into a pattern. In my opinion loads should be developed while allowing your rifle to recoil naturally.

 

[WildRose]

Howdy all! Looooong time lurker, first time poster. Lookin to tap into the knowledge here around precision long range shooting!

so here goes....

Having recently completed the sub MOA 300yd challenge ( by the skin of my teeth), first thought through my mind was that i need to do it better. Lots of folks here and other places seem to think the detached front rest system is more accurate than the lead slead....so I figure I better give it a try!

Picked up a "rock jr" as I figured all the extra gucci adjustments weren't needed for my level of shooting. Found the bag to be quite sloppy with just the velrco, so made a cradle for it to firm it up and bolted it on to the rest.

Also found the height of both front rest and a rear bag I had to be way too low for me and very uncomfortable, so shimmed them up to a comfortable height.

Off to the range this morning to try it out and get a feel for it....this is how I'm set up

Fired three 5 shot groups at 110....center group was one hand on rifle, barely any pressure on my shoulder, top left was one hand and firmly shouldered, top right was both hands, firmly holding the rifle

Not the result I was expecting

.
all shots, felt very still and solid, and I felt like I stayed with each one through the follow through. Off the lead slead, this load has shown to be a pretty consistant 3/4" ish, with single digit SD. So like most things, I can only assume some operator error has resulted in these groups.

This is where all you knowledgeable shooters come in....What are the tricks of the trade to achieve precision in this sort of rest arrangement?

Thanks in advance
Chris

The lead sled basically removes the human from the equation other than to act as trigger puller.

POI will frequently shift quite a bit when you go from the sled to any other rest because of many things including eye/sight alighment and cheek weld.

The sled is also considerably harder on scopes sincethere is no appreciable loss ofenergy as is usually absorbed by the human.

That energy which would have been disappated in your body now has no where else to go other than the gun itself and anything attached to it.

 

[WildRose]

Howdy all! Looooong time lurker, first time poster. Lookin to tap into the knowledge here around precision long range shooting!

so here goes....

Having recently completed the sub MOA 300yd challenge ( by the skin of my teeth), first thought through my mind was that i need to do it better. Lots of folks here and other places seem to think the detached front rest system is more accurate than the lead slead....so I figure I better give it a try!

Picked up a "rock jr" as I figured all the extra gucci adjustments weren't needed for my level of shooting. Found the bag to be quite sloppy with just the velrco, so made a cradle for it to firm it up and bolted it on to the rest.

Also found the height of both front rest and a rear bag I had to be way too low for me and very uncomfortable, so shimmed them up to a comfortable height.

Off to the range this morning to try it out and get a feel for it....this is how I'm set up

Fired three 5 shot groups at 110....center group was one hand on rifle, barely any pressure on my shoulder, top left was one hand and firmly shouldered, top right was both hands, firmly holding the rifle

Not the result I was expecting

.
all shots, felt very still and solid, and I felt like I stayed with each one through the follow through. Off the lead slead, this load has shown to be a pretty consistant 3/4" ish, with single digit SD. So like most things, I can only assume some operator error has resulted in these groups.

This is where all you knowledgeable shooters come in....What are the tricks of the trade to achieve precision in this sort of rest arrangement?

Thanks in advance
Chris

Practice and learning to "drive the rifle".

Google that term and "Sniper's Hide" Youtube.

Frank does a great job with that video which teaches one of the most fundamental aspects of shooting.

 

[xsn10s]

The only time for me that shooting on the lead sled beat rest and rear bag was when the sling stud on the fore end would hit the front rest during recoil. Once I kept the stud from the rest I consistently shot better off an Eagle front rest and rear bag than the lead sled.

 

[Rich Coyle]

willyqbc,

You might verify your parralax.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Practice and learning to "drive the rifle".
Google that term and "Sniper's Hide" Youtube.
Frank does a great job with that video which teaches one of the most fundamental aspects of shooting.

I could not find a SH video on "drive the rifle". Would you please provide a link to what you saw?

 

[xsn10s]

willyqbc I noticed that where your rifle's rear bag rests the shooting table is kinda thin. Meaning that there isn't much table there to rest your elbow on. Do you get good elbow support on that bench? And is the table rough? I generally put a blanket or towels on the bench to keep abrasions down. It generally doesn't bother me but subconsciously I think something causes pain it can be a distraction.

 

[WildRose]

I could not find a SH video on "drive the rifle". Would you please provide a link to what you saw?

I haven't seen it in years. Email Frank over there, he's the site owner and I'm sure he can point you to it. Nice guy, hell of an operator in his day.

 

[WildRose]

willyqbc I noticed that where your rifle's rear bag rests the shooting table is kinda thin. Meaning that there isn't much table there to rest your elbow on. Do you get good elbow support on that bench? And is the table rough? I generally put a blanket or towels on the bench to keep abrasions down. It generally doesn't bother me but subconsciously I think something causes pain it can be a distraction.

I cut a padded mat out of a Roll up Yoga Mat for my benches. Sure saves elbow, gun, and gear scrapes.

They are really nothing more than Surplus field mattresses.

 

[Mach 1]

If I were you I'd buy a 3 inch wide bag for your front rest and put on a 3 inch forearm adapter on your gun. With a 3 inch flat bottom forearm your gun will stay level and that's a must at extended ranges. Also the gun will recoil more consistently rearward in a 3 inch rest. Also a good rabbit ear rear rest is nice too. And dump the crap media out of the cheap bags and buy some heavy black sand from brownells or Sinclairs and refill them. In my area the lead sled and other one peice rests aren't allowed in benchrest meets. Also a good way to go is buy a used Sinclair f class bipod for the front. The cheap rounded bags used with a rounded forearm stock can only do so much for you.

 

[willyqbc]

Thanks for all the great input folks! Lots of stuff there for me to chew on! Im finding that starting out extending my range is one of those "you dont know what you dont know" kind of things!
Thankfully, places like this are around to help get me pointed in the right direction!

Thanks
Chris

 

[Mach 1]

Thanks for all the great input folks! Lots of stuff there for me to chew on! Im finding that starting out extending my range is one of those "you dont know what you dont know" kind of things!
Thankfully, places like this are around to help get me pointed in the right direction!

Thanks
Chris

Benchrest shooters are some of the nicest people out there. Don't be afraid to ask to look over their equipment. 99.9% of the time they are proud of what they have and more than happy to help a brother out.

 

[xarcher]

I'm not a fan of the lead sled. It doesn't replicate hunting conditions and disconnects the shooter from the gun. Seems intuitive if not obvious that this at the very least creates a different POI. The one time I tried one the POA shifted as I settled in for the shot. Just never felt comfortable.
Saw a fellow a few years ago at the range using a lead sled and sighting in his gun at 100 yards. Also had a Velcro strap lashed around the barrel/foreend of the gun. So I took a peak at his group and saw something in the order of 5-6 inches. I suggested he take that strap off and the group shrunk. Still thought he could do better so I offered my sandbags and a little coaching. Almost went sub MOA.