School me on copper bullets

[MighteyWhiteHunter]

I have shot nosler E-Tips, Barnes TSX, TTSX, and LRX, and Hammer Bullets, all have performed very well with only a couple follow up shots needed in over 25 animals in Commnifornia. Longest deer was 625 with a .270win and Barnes TTSX. I definitely say push them fast. I have whacked a lot of critters with my .270wsm pushing 110 TTSX @ 3470fps. As well as my .243 pushing the 90 E-Tip @ 3120. I have yet to try the Hammers on Game because i just got them a few weeks ago but so far load development has been minimal and groups have been tight. I have only recovered a few bullers, most punch a nice hole through critters no matter what you hit or how fast the impact velocity is. Put the bullet where it needs to be and you will have meat in the freezer.

 

[Swamplord]

Badlands Precision is cranking out some pretty awesome copper bullets

higher bc's in the same weight class regardless if copper or jacketed lead bullets, lighter weight bullets can be driven faster to take advantage of the higher bc's

1st pic is of the new bullets
2nd pic is the 190 gr PICBM bullet
3rd pic left to right
(mfg. claimed bc's)

Badlands 196 gr Bulldozer (.600 G1 BC) new higher bc 207 gr bullet coming (.825 G1 BC)
Badlands 190 gr PICBM (.724 G1 BC) new higher bc 215 gr bullet coming (.840 G1 BC)
Sierra 230 gr Match King (.780 G1 BC)
Berger 230 gr Hybrid (.717 G1 BC)
Hornady 225 gr ELD-Match (.777 G1 BC)

https://badlandsprecision.com/shop/

 

[Varminator 911]

View attachment 123769 Just got 100 of these babies in and working on having a hunting hp aluminum tip bullet made next, also coming are the .408 cal and .308 cal high bc bullets in target and hunting form, some really cool stuff happening this year

I'm very interested in the 308 caliber hollow point tipped with nearly 0.4 G7 at 207 grains. If that bullet is accurate and has good terminal performance it will be a wicked combination of bc and speed. 3200 to 3500 fps should be possible in the various 300 magnums. Terminal performance will be key. Will it expand and will it hold together? But maybe it doesn't need to hold together, just expand. I'd think it would need a pretty deep hollow point under that skinny tip in order to expand very well. If the tip blows off and it's left with a small diameter nose it will just pencil thru.

I am somewhat skeptical of tipped copper bullets. Will they expand. But the TTSX from Barnes, GMX from Hornady, and E-tip from Nosler are all tipped and seem to expand. Not sure of minimum velocity requirements but probably 1800-2000 fps range.

 

[Varminator 911]

Badlands Precision is cranking out some pretty awesome copper bullets

higher bc's in the same weight class regardless if copper or jacketed lead bullets, lighter weight bullets can be driven faster to take advantage of the higher bc's

1st pic is of the new bullets
2nd pic is the 190 gr PICBM bullet
3rd pic left to right
(mfg. claimed bc's)

Badlands 196 gr Bulldozer (.600 G1 BC) new higher bc 207 gr bullet coming (.825 G1 BC)
Badlands 190 gr PICBM (.724 G1 BC) new higher bc 215 gr bullet coming (.840 G1 BC)
Sierra 230 gr Match King (.780 G1 BC)
Berger 230 gr Hybrid (.717 G1 BC)
Hornady 225 gr ELD-Match (.777 G1 BC)

https://badlandsprecision.com/shop/


View attachment 123775 View attachment 123773 View attachment 123774

Thank you for the bullet pictures. I'm skeptical of the Hornaday 225 bullets bc compared to 230 gn Berger and Sierra. Hornaday's bullet is shorter and obviously has a lower form factor. No way it has the same bc as the Sierra.

 

[CVR222NV]

I started using the Barnes X Bullet 168 gr BT in the early 90's and moved the TSX BT 168 gr when it came out and it has performed exceptionally well out to 550 yds on Elk using my 300 Weatherby. I'm currently using the TTSX BT but have yet to kill anything but would expect the same results. I use the same bullet for Mule Deer with the same results. I did shoot an Antelope with this bullet that didn't seem to expand so would probably need to go to a lighter bullet for better performance on Antelope. My decision to change to copper had everything to do with bullet performance on game and nothing to do with lead bans. However, I saw a X Ray photo (I think it was the AZ hunt proclamation) of what a lead bullet does on game and I was shocked at how it fragmented from large to small enough I don't think you could see the fragments. I personally would never use a lead bullet on anything I intend to eat. I just had my rifle re-barreled and will start with my tried and true Barnes load but after reading the reviews on the Hammer bullets will also work up a load for one of their bullets in my search for maximum long range performance for a hunting rifle. Badlands look interesting. Very long to get those BC's. I would like to hear how they actually perform on Elk size game and in the magazine before working up a load with that bullet.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Thank you for your reply. Still think I'd rather have a double caliper expansion, high weight retention, and an exit hole. Maybe some large exit holes with Hammers would change my mind.

If that were the case I don't see why they'd ever use expanding bullets on things like cape buffalo. Hell just shoot solids and make a bigger wound channel. Doesn't make sense to me.

I can't explain it better than this physics paper. It will take some dedication on your part to read it, but if you really want to learn how bullets work, this is scientific work on the subject. Not marketing or traditions passed down around the campfire. http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

The form that the bullet takes after impact along with the vel that it travels through the vital tissue creating the largest wound channel to cause rapid blood loss is the goal.

I will add that there is more than one way to do this and I am not trying to say there is only one good way. The physics that is outlined in Shooting Holes In Wounding Theories is what we aimed to make our bullets do in the most consistent way possible.

Hope this helps clear things up.

 

[Craveman85]

I used to use Barnes with my 243 for deer before I wore out the barrel and make it a 260. Worked great and killed many deer. My 375 h&h would foul badly with them but they shot good . Had to make an electrolysis rod to get the fouling out of that one. For some reason it's not that bad with jacketed bullets. Haven't tried them in my other rifles yet.

 

[memtb]

I used to use Barnes with my 243 for deer before I wore out the barrel and make it a 260. Worked great and killed many deer. My 375 h&h would foul badly with them but they shot good . Had to make an electrolysis rod to get the fouling out of that one. For some reason it's not that bad with jacketed bullets. Haven't tried them in my other rifles yet.

Your fouling issues......did that happen with the original "X" bullet, or the newer TSX/TTSX bullets? memtb

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is a pic of a 221g Hammer Hunter recovered from a blacktail, sxs with an unfired bullet.


Here is some pics of testing with one of our Hammer Hunters in the Dead Blow version. This shows what the petals are like. I consider the petals to be a bonus not the main source of terminal performance.

Left to right high vel impact (3500fps) low vel impact (1800fps) and mid vel impact (2700fps)

This is our terminal expectation.

 

[Rich Coyle]

My question is do all the copper bullets hold together esp with high impact velocity so as to have high weight retention? My impression from a prior post was that Hammer bullets fragment. Does anyone have a picture of expanded Hammer bullets? I've seen plenty of expanded Barnes and they usually look like the GMX in post 34..

I shot a 330 pound pig in the chest trying to catch a 6.5 Hammer Sledgehammer. The main shank exited at 30" along with three of the pettles.

 

[joe406]

I used to shoot Barnes a lot but don't much anymore. IMO, plusses and minuses.
Plus:
- It is copper, not lead. Less toxic.
- Great penetration.
- Great weight retention. Below pic, 180 grain TTSX after pulled from elk. Straight on shot, close range.
Minuses:
- It is copper, so it is harder than lead. Sometimes doesn't mushroom much if it doesn't hit something solid. Sometimes a lethal shot will punch though like a field point on an arrow, still lethal but expect tracking.
- It is less dense meaning a longer and less stable bullet for the same weight. Could result in more difficulty getting good groups. Sometimes a tipped bullet or LR style bullet will actually increase this problem because of increased length.
- They are not as slippery (BC) as conventional bullets. They need grooves to reduce extra pressure from the harder bullet.
- Fouling. It can be a little more work cleaning with more specific solutions.

Best of luck,

Joe

 

[Deleted member 107796]

I started using the Barnes X Bullet 168 gr BT in the early 90's and moved the TSX BT 168 gr when it came out and it has performed exceptionally well out to 550 yds on Elk using my 300 Weatherby. I'm currently using the TTSX BT but have yet to kill anything but would expect the same results. I use the same bullet for Mule Deer with the same results. I did shoot an Antelope with this bullet that didn't seem to expand so would probably need to go to a lighter bullet for better performance on Antelope. My decision to change to copper had everything to do with bullet performance on game and nothing to do with lead bans. However, I saw a X Ray photo (I think it was the AZ hunt proclamation) of what a lead bullet does on game and I was shocked at how it fragmented from large to small enough I don't think you could see the fragments. I personally would never use a lead bullet on anything I intend to eat. I just had my rifle re-barreled and will start with my tried and true Barnes load but after reading the reviews on the Hammer bullets will also work up a load for one of their bullets in my search for maximum long range performance for a hunting rifle. Badlands look interesting. Very long to get those BC's. I would like to hear how they actually perform on Elk size game and in the magazine before working up a load with that bullet.

Great stuff and I'm sure those that have tried the monos extensively, would agree. I have yet to see a mono fail even at high velocity on pronghorn. When you look at the cavity designs and the skivved tip, it makes sense to me that I'm seeing about 2x expansion as shown in the other images.
Going no-lead in the electronics world has had the same blowback. You get a lot of negative opinions from those that find the change more of a pain and have little real experience with it.

 

[scott63]

I have had some positive results with Barnes and some negative. I had a crap load of the older XLC 140gr bullets set aside for my .284 Winchester that I only fairly recently ran out of. Those bullets seemed to work like magic, always expanding well but also penetrating very well. Normal broadside shot on deer would have a golf ball+ sized exit and the only bullet recovered was on a frontal mule deer shot, that bullet was recovered in the rear leg and mushroomed nicely to nearly double caliber size. Now for the negative: having switched to the TTSX in .284 Win and .270 Win the accuracy is very good in both rifles but I'm not so sure on this bullet and whether or not the copper is the same as in the older XLC's. Reason being, having shot several coyotes and a couple deer with the .270 Win the one double lung shot on a buck had less than impressive results. Exits on coyotes were caliber size, while exits on coyotes with the XLC was "destructive". On the buck that was double lunged with the .270 TTSX there was a quarter size hole through the lungs and exit wound but no blood for 50 plus yards and that buck ran like it was a clean miss dying after 150 yards. Now I've made nearly identical shot on several deer with the .270 Win and BTSP bullets and the lungs always looked as if a grenade had detonated in there, ususally resulted in DRT kill. So I don't know about the TTSX but probably haven't killed enough stuff with them yet. I did switch to the 120 gr in my .284, so we'll see if more speed makes a difference in that rifle.

 

[Mystras]

Do you think you would have better results if you went to the lighter 168 grain TTSX bullet? The bullet makers recommend going to a lighter weight bullet in the mono bullets.

I've heard this too...Would love to hear from others on their experience.