SAAMI Hybrid Hunting, 7mm 168gr

[brentc]

+1 as I shoot the vld's now.

If you already have a good load for the VLD, why would you want to downgrade your performance by switching to the classic hunter?

 

[Joe King]

If you already have a good load for the VLD, why would you want to downgrade your performance by switching to the classic hunter?

for the same reason I initially tried CH, in the hope to be able to use my magazine again, and the difference in down range performance isn't much at all. another bonus is that as your throat erodes the effect on a VLD load can be less than desirable, with the CH you may not even notice any difference. Or just curiosity. What ever the reason that hybrid Ojive is turning out to be a neat deal.

 

[rick523]

If you already have a good load for the VLD, why would you want to downgrade your performance by switching to the classic hunter?

Joe, pretty much dittoed what my answer would be. Yes I have a good load for the VLD's both in 168 and 140 I live In Indiana where we can't really use true center fire rifles for big game (whitetails) I had my rifle built for my trips to Wy. and Colorado that being said I still like to tinker around with different bullets occasionaly. So why not test the difference in the two? Still have no answer if the loads would be same for either bullet, which was I think our original question.

 

[txsendero]

I emailed Berger to ask them about the load for 168VLD vs 168 Classic Hunter, and they sent me back load data for 7WSM for 168 grain bullets, with no distinction made between the different 168 grain bullets. So according to them, load data should be the same for the VLD hunting and target bullets, and the 168 Classic Hunter. But I'm still going to drop down a few grains and work my way back up to my original load just to be on the safe side.

 

[Joe King]

I emailed Berger to ask them about the load for 168VLD vs 168 Classic Hunter, and they sent me back load data for 7WSM for 168 grain bullets, with no distinction made between the different 168 grain bullets. So according to them, load data should be the same for the VLD hunting and target bullets, and the 168 Classic Hunter. But I'm still going to drop down a few grains and work my way back up to my original load just to be on the safe side.

Ging from the VLD to the CH I would drop down a little too since it has a longer bearing surface, going from Ch to the VLD though I just might do a direct swap and try out different seating depths. They both have the same jacket with the same thickness the only real difference being bearing length.

 

[BPD419]

Mr. Stecker just wanted to say thanks to you and Berger for coming out with the new Classic Hunter Bullets. I only have one rifle that has a custom barrel, my others are all factory. Glad I can now shoot Bergers in the rest of my rifles. Can't wait to see what other Classic bullets you guys come out with. I just ordered a box of the 30 cal 168 for my 308.

 

[Joe King]

I've been playin with the 180gr hybrids too, similar results except their waaay to long for the magazine

 

[DREBS]

Joe they are but... the hybrids are going to set further back from your lands.. eg. the VLDS might be loaded .050 off the lands with a overall length of 3.25.. If you set the hybrids at 3.25( the same depth) .. not changing your die... i will tell you you will be more off the lands so lets say at least .060 off maybe up to .120 at the same length

 

[Joe King]

Joe they are but... the hybrids are going to set further back from your lands.. eg. the VLDS might be loaded .050 off the lands with a overall length of 3.25.. If you set the hybrids at 3.25( the same depth) .. not changing your die... i will tell you you will be more off the lands so lets say at least .060 off maybe up to .120 at the same length

Yea maybe but why does that matter? If your working up a new load don't you find the best distance off the lands for THAT bullet? (thats how I do it) I never ever create a load based on over all C.O.A.L. I kind of did that with the 168gr Classic hunter, but only so much as to insure they fit in the magazine, the point behind the Hybrid design (which ever flavor) was to minimized sensitivity to seating depth. Berger very much got it right in that regard. I've tried 3 different "Hybrids so far in 2 different bore dia, and as of right now they've all shot well regardless of distance off the lands. For examples the 168gr CH, when I worked up that load I started on my seating depth at 0.020" off the lands and worked out to 0.100 off the lands, not 1 seating depth produced more than 1moa, with 0.040 being slightly under and produced the largest group, and 0.060 producing well under 1/2moa, with 0.080 and 0.100 still being under 1/2 moa, and 0.0600 off the lands being the longest C.O.A.L. that would fit in my magazine but with no room to spare. For that particular load I settled on 0.080 to insure that I wouldn't run into feeding problems. I also tried the 95gr CH in my 243 with similar results as far as being insensitive to seating depth and grouping, with that rifle though magazine length is not a limiting factor for C.O.A.L. With the 180gr Hybrid that bullet is just far to long to load to magazine length without seating the bullet far into the case and taking up case capacity so I never worried about that and decided that that load would have to be single shot, and again I haven't found a seating depth that produces over 1moa, and at this point I am getting under 1/2moa and my current step is fine tuning the powder charge.

since you referenced the seating die I feel that I should mention that I use a
Redding benchrest die, and record the micrometer reading for each individual load so that if for what ever reason I want to revisit a load it's only a matter of setting the die to that reading.

My conclusion (opinion) is that the hybrid designs of both flavors are very very good Ojive designs and will eventually have a large impact on Long Range precision game, and may very well be a a game changing break though for the bullet industry.

 

[DREBS]

It wouldn't just sayin be mindful of it because if you can get the difference between the lands you can set the bullet appropriately because for all practical purposes they essentially fly the same for all shooting under 1000 k. And I've seen people just trade them out and complain of accuracy when they did not adjust for the lands... But ya u nailed it. Also seen guys switch from hybrids loaded .010 off lands on a magnum to original VLD's, thus jamming them into the lands and top loaded pressures = blown up gun

 

[Joe King]

Ok I didn't understand what you where saying, I agree with you though I nearly had to bottom out my seating die for the CH and for the 180gr it.s backed out 0.400 farther. Amazes me when people try to just swap out bullets thinking they don't need to verify things first.

 

[Shootin4fun]

Ancient thread, and things changed as best I can figure. I first thought that the 7mm 168 CH is the only one that will run with a 1:10 twist, saw some on sale and bought a box. Berger # 28570. Paired with H1000, .010 off lands instantly got .5 moa on a light load- 63.0gr, 2730fps. Stuck with that for target shooting out to 600 yards. Wonderful. Hardly any recoil.

Then I was at a LGS and saw VLD Hunters that said 1:10 on the box with a higher BC, whoohoo! On Berger's site it has VLDs listed as 1:9. Bought em. The VLD Hunters you guys have been talking about are on the Berger site, #28501 and is for 1:9. BUT there is the newer introduction that is #28502, and this runs with a 1:10 barrel.

First outing with them last week at the same charge, 63.0 H1000, seated at 3 depths gave same velocities and is very accurate is promising. 4 shot groups all under .5, but not clustered as well as the original CH. Original has at least 2 of 4 in one round hole, whereas VLDs line up horizontally or vertically at about .4 - .5 extreme spread. More testing needed to verify. SDs in low teens.

Interestingly, Reloader 22 in summer heat gives +100 fps than in winter with same accuracy and POI. 60.6 gave 2830. Started to increase in .5gr increments, but at 62.1 I was back at 2830 with same group size but different shape.

Any updates on from y'all regarding the newer VLDs with regard to better BC and performance on game would be appreciated.