SAAMI Hybrid Hunting, 7mm 168gr

[Eric Stecker]

Gentlemen,

First I must apologize for the lack of information provided on these bullets when they were released. We have stepped into unfamiliar territory and are feeling our way around.

What I mean is that, we had never considered SAAMI standards in the design of any of our bullets. Our sights were set on what we regard as increasing performance and SAAMI standards are an annoying restriction.

In another post, it was mentioned that we had another bullet called the SAAMI Hybrid. To clear up the confusion, the SAAMI Hybrid (a name that was discontinued) bullet is the Classic Hunter. We just changed the name.

These bullets were designed for an ammunition manufacturer who wanted a Berger Hunting bullet that they could load in SAAMI spec ammo without the tuning challenge the VLD Hunting bullets present. We are in the process of getting these bullets into loaded ammo but in the meantime we wanted to put them out there for reloaders.

I didn't think that these bullets would be interesting to those on a Long Range Hunting forum so we didn't mention their release here. For those who are interested in more info on these bullets you can go to our website blog through the links below.

Berger Bulletin » New Berger Classic Hunter Bullets

Berger Bulletin » Berger Classic Hunter Bullets Put to the Test

For now we are going to stick with the bullets that have been released so far. We are experiencing a surge of demand (likely due to the Nov election) so we are not introducing more than a few new bullets while we work to keep up.

One of the new bullets that was mentioned in a previous post is the Elite Hunter bullets. For now the only bullets available from this line are the 338 cal 250 gr and 300 gr Elite Hunters. The bullets in the Elite Hunter line are designed to be as optimized as possible with no regard for SAAMI standards. These are essentially the Hybrid Target bullets made with hunting jackets.

The Classic Hunter line is deliberately designed to comply with SAAMI standards for those hunters who want to feed through a magazine is factory rifles. It will likely be several months before we release any more bullets for each of these lines but they are on the list to be released in 2013.

Regards,
Eric

 

[AZShooter]

Ksdogman,

Nice going! Great looking animals. Any detailed information on bullet performance: what part of animal was hit, exit size if any etc. would be appreciated.


My friend's rifle has a 26" barrel. I thought it was a tad fast but some rifles can run fast. Chrono'ed it a couple of times with my CED. IIRC the load was 72.5 gr of Retumbo. Never did any LR shooting and testing comeups etc. If my friend ever gets a shot at 300 yds (or more) it will be unusual.

You have me wondering about his load...I may have to do some testing both with the chronograph and some comeup work. Now that I have reflected on it there may be something wrong with the velocites I got.

 

[Joe King]

Eric.
No problem! the idea of being able to reclaim my magazine and a G7 BC of 0.309 I figured their pretty close to the VLD and a hybrid design they'd be worth a shot even going into it some what blind. They worked out well so far and the BC has been pretty close if not spot on in my rifle. One thing that really impressed me is that all throughout load workup with these bullets I never got one group that was bigger than MOA, and yes I am able to use my magazine again and still hold 1/2MOA. General rifle doesn't open here in Montana for another week and a half so I'm just going to half to wait to see how I feel about terminal ballistics, but with reports starting to trickle in I believe I'll be pretty happy with them

 

[Ksdogman]

gun)Elk 220 yds shoulder no exit, bullet was recovered on opposite side just under the hide, broke onside shoulder and turned the insides to jello, lungs were vaporized, went 40 yds tipped over, bullet retention looked like 30% just perfect the energy was given to animal, sounded like I shot a 2x12

gun)Muledeer 400 yds a little back gave a minute of wind and didn't need to, the intersesting thing is the deer didn't move, the hydorstadic shock instanly took him down, he fell like I hit him in the head, when the bullet fragmented it cut his artery under his backbone and just like a heart shot, the bullet did exit here but didn't hit much for bone, this is where i love the bergers marginal shots, I have had several not so great shots with bergers but the damage is so severe they don't go far

gun)Oryx 415 yds, if you look in the picture I hit him a little high on the first shot in the shoulder, it just leveled him layed him flat he laid there for 30 seconds or so we thought he was down for the count, much to my surprise as we were walkin up he got up to his front legs, I laid another shoulder shot in him at 200 yds this finished him both shoulders were completely destroyed both broke and the top side of his heart and lungs were trashed, the wound channels were awsome!!! These are extremely tough animals with really big bone structure and a lot of cartlige mixed in, oh neither bullet exited right inside the hide on opposite side. hope this helps

 

[MSLRHunter]

Where can I find pictures and measurements of these so I can determine if they would be beneficial in my 280AI?

 

[Scot E]

Gentlemen,

First I must apologize for the lack of information provided on these bullets when they were released. We have stepped into unfamiliar territory and are feeling our way around.

What I mean is that, we had never considered SAAMI standards in the design of any of our bullets. Our sights were set on what we regard as increasing performance and SAAMI standards are an annoying restriction.

In another post, it was mentioned that we had another bullet called the SAAMI Hybrid. To clear up the confusion, the SAAMI Hybrid (a name that was discontinued) bullet is the Classic Hunter. We just changed the name.

These bullets were designed for an ammunition manufacturer who wanted a Berger Hunting bullet that they could load in SAAMI spec ammo without the tuning challenge the VLD Hunting bullets present. We are in the process of getting these bullets into loaded ammo but in the meantime we wanted to put them out there for reloaders.

I didn't think that these bullets would be interesting to those on a Long Range Hunting forum so we didn't mention their release here. For those who are interested in more info on these bullets you can go to our website blog through the links below.

Berger Bulletin » New Berger Classic Hunter Bullets

Berger Bulletin » Berger Classic Hunter Bullets Put to the Test

For now we are going to stick with the bullets that have been released so far. We are experiencing a surge of demand (likely due to the Nov election) so we are not introducing more than a few new bullets while we work to keep up.

One of the new bullets that was mentioned in a previous post is the Elite Hunter bullets. For now the only bullets available from this line are the 338 cal 250 gr and 300 gr Elite Hunters. The bullets in the Elite Hunter line are designed to be as optimized as possible with no regard for SAAMI standards. These are essentially the Hybrid Target bullets made with hunting jackets.

The Classic Hunter line is deliberately designed to comply with SAAMI standards for those hunters who want to feed through a magazine is factory rifles. It will likely be several months before we release any more bullets for each of these lines but they are on the list to be released in 2013.

Regards,
Eric

Eric,

Thanks for the clarification. I am still a bit confused about one thing though. I was watching EOL and the definition Beck gave for the new elite hunter hybrid is pretty much exactly what you just gave for the classics. Are they the same, ie both hybrids with a tangent/secant combo but the classics are tied to SAAMI specs but the elites are allowed to be longer to gain as much BC as possible? Both have hunting jackets though right?

Thanks,

Scot E.

 

[Joe King]

Where can I find pictures and measurements of these so I can determine if they would be beneficial in my 280AI?

the lenght is 1.35" they have a longer Ojive, boat tail, and shorter bearing length than and Nosler 160gr Accubond and a shorter length also. Off hand I would say if you can use an AB in your magazine you can use a CH

bad pic but just for a visual

 

[Eric Stecker]

the definition Beck gave for the new elite hunter hybrid is pretty much exactly what you just gave for the classics. Are they the same, ie both hybrids with a tangent/secant combo but the classics are tied to SAAMI specs but the elites are allowed to be longer to gain as much BC as possible? Both have hunting jackets though right?

Scot,

We are sorting through a bit of confusion and I apologize for any miscommunications. Both the Classic Hunter and the Elite Hunter are bullets made with Hybrid nose shapes and hunting jackets. The difference between the designs is the overall length of the noses.

All Classic Hunter bullets are designed with nose lengths that comply with SAAMI standards which means that if you seat them to a SAAMI COAL you will have bearing surface in front of (or above) the neck of the case. Being able to do this is what allows them to function well and shoot well out of a magazine.

It is important to keep in mind that you can seat any bullet to SAAMI COAL so that it will feed in a magazine. The problem you run into with our other long nose bullets is that the nose is so long that the nose portion of the bullet is below the neck of the case when seated to SAAMI COAL.

This creates accuracy issues since so much of the bullet is in the case. Another problem you have with this situation is the very long jump that is common if you are using a SAAMI length chamber. Those with custom rifles can have custom chambers (if they request them) and either longer than standard magazine boxes or single feed their ammo. This overcomes the difficulties with long nose bullets.

All the Elite Hunter bullets are long nosed Hybrid design bullets. If you seat these bullets to SAAMI COAL you will have a portion of the nose in the neck of the case. These bullets are better for custom rifles with longer than standard magazine boxes or are single fed. You can use a SAAMI chamber with long nosed bullets since the bearing surface is typically shorter allowing the bullet to seat further out before it touches the rifling. However, many custom rifles use customized chamber dimensions.

The Elite Hunter bullets are the same shape as our Hybrid Target bullets. The difference is that they are made with hunting jackets rather than the thicker target jacket. As I mentioned earlier, only the 338 cal 250 gr and 300 gr Elite Hunter bullets are available now. The rest of this line is planned to be released in 2013 (not sure when exactly).

Clear as mud?
Eric

 

[captacademy]

Ksdogman, those are some great photo's!!!!

AZ Shooter, thats an impressive load in that 7mm. What brand is that barrel and length?

 

[cowboy]

Scot,

We are sorting through a bit of confusion and I apologize

Clear as mud?
Eric

I've shot Bergers for years and after this I sure as hell don't know what to buy when my stash runs out. YEP - clear as mud.

 

[Scot E]

Scot,

We are sorting through a bit of confusion and I apologize for any miscommunications. Both the Classic Hunter and the Elite Hunter are bullets made with Hybrid nose shapes and hunting jackets. The difference between the designs is the overall length of the noses.

All Classic Hunter bullets are designed with nose lengths that comply with SAAMI standards which means that if you seat them to a SAAMI COAL you will have bearing surface in front of (or above) the neck of the case. Being able to do this is what allows them to function well and shoot well out of a magazine.

It is important to keep in mind that you can seat any bullet to SAAMI COAL so that it will feed in a magazine. The problem you run into with our other long nose bullets is that the nose is so long that the nose portion of the bullet is below the neck of the case when seated to SAAMI COAL.

This creates accuracy issues since so much of the bullet is in the case. Another problem you have with this situation is the very long jump that is common if you are using a SAAMI length chamber. Those with custom rifles can have custom chambers (if they request them) and either longer than standard magazine boxes or single feed their ammo. This overcomes the difficulties with long nose bullets.

All the Elite Hunter bullets are long nosed Hybrid design bullets. If you seat these bullets to SAAMI COAL you will have a portion of the nose in the neck of the case. These bullets are better for custom rifles with longer than standard magazine boxes or are single fed. You can use a SAAMI chamber with long nosed bullets since the bearing surface is typically shorter allowing the bullet to seat further out before it touches the rifling. However, many custom rifles use customized chamber dimensions.

The Elite Hunter bullets are the same shape as our Hybrid Target bullets. The difference is that they are made with hunting jackets rather than the thicker target jacket. As I mentioned earlier, only the 338 cal 250 gr and 300 gr Elite Hunter bullets are available now. The rest of this line is planned to be released in 2013 (not sure when exactly).

Clear as mud?
Eric

I think I got it! Thanks for the clarification.

Do you know what calibers and weights are going to be released for the Elite Hunter line in 2013? I am sure 30 is in there but would love to see 6.5 as well!

Scot E

 

[txsendero]

Eric hopefully you can chime in on this subject, but if I was going to go from shooting the 168VLD in a 7WSM to shooting the 168 grain Classic Hunters, should I be able to use the same load with the 168 Classic Hunter bullet? (I realize that it is probably best to lower the charge a few grains and work my way back up, but I would be using the same brass, primer and powder, H1000).

 

[Joe King]

Eric hopefully you can chime in on this subject, but if I was going to go from shooting the 168VLD in a 7WSM to shooting the 168 grain Classic Hunters, should I be able to use the same load with the 168 Classic Hunter bullet? (I realize that it is probably best to lower the charge a few grains and work my way back up, but I would be using the same brass, primer and powder, H1000).

I never tried the VLD's but I'm sure curios if these 2 bullets are interchangeable, I mean literally swap one bullet out for the other without changing the load.

 

[rick523]

I never tried the VLD's but I'm sure curios if these 2 bullets are interchangeable, I mean literally swap one bullet out for the other without changing the load.

+1 as I shoot the vld's now.