Ruger M77 Tang Safety HELP--removed all variables, still sucks.....

I'm completely chilled but I firmly believe that those that try to "fix" it don't really understand what they are doing. When properly pillared and bedded the Ruger is just as accurate as anything else out there and the positive extraction with the Mauser claw design is the best there is for my money. If money was no object every gun I own would be built on a Ruger action.
 
I'll rephrase, file shank AND threads to make the action screw shorter so it positively will not bottom out in blind hole of action.
 
here are two things to look at, and these are from past experience.

1. if you happen to be using the factory Ruger rings, swap them out for a convention base and rings! A couple thousandths slop here will give you almost two inches at 100 yards. Also if your rings are solidly anchored in the receiver, then lap them. As things begin to heat up they will move all over the place.

2. Now this is tricky, but pull the barreled action out of the stock and inspect the area around the angled screw. This can make or break you here. It doesn't take a lot to make things go bad here. You might try adding a .003" or a .005" plastic shim there to see if it helps. If it makes a difference, then you need to lightly skim bed that area again (that's what I had to do with one rifle). I suspect that everybody has their own method of tightening these screws. I like to do the front and back ones down to about 30 inch pounds, then bring the center one down to the same. After that, I bring the other two down to 40 inch pounds, and then bring the center one down to the same or slightly under or over in in tension (I find the rifle vary a bit). The torque wrench you use has a lot to do with the end results. Forget the break over ones, and find one with a dial. Look over each screw under a strong light. Look at the first two threads at the end to see if they are shiny or even discolored. If they are, you might need to either run a tap into the holes for a clean up. You also might need to grind a thread off the tip of the screw itself.

Now when you have the barreled action out of the stock, look for some warpage in the forend. Look to see if the receiver area is contacting the bolt handle or even the trigger. Have seen this more than once in several rifles. Also make sure you have at least .06" clearance around the barrel everywhere, and .093" would be better.

Eighty percent of the end users of a torque wrench use them wrong! You see this everywhere from race car guys to folks like me and you. Few people actually look at the bolts and nuts they are tightening, and trust me a nicked up screw at the low specs will give you a false reading. With a dial type wrench you'll often see things start to go bad. I like to coat the threads very lightly with Never Seize With Nickel (do not use Loctite Anti Seize!!). The can calls for you to reduce the torque spec by 50%, but 35 inch pounds will do nicely, and not over 40 inch pounds. (that spec is usually for bigger screws). When tightening these screws, turn the wrench slowly while holding it steady at both ends. When you see a guy just cranking the wrench away like he was in hurry the specs will be off a bit. Lastly; no matter how accurately you torque the screws, the area they seat against must be good an perpendicular to the thread. If that area is rough, you never get a good spec.

gary
 
Stomp,

People seem to like to throw the "hate" word around very loosely. I don't "hate" any action. To me, they are what they are. Some are better than others and they all have their strong and weak points. Some have more strong points and some have more weak points.

I hunted many years with my M77 and it served me well and killed a lot of critteres while it lasted. It is now permanently retired because I don't want to put the $$$$ into it to build on it for a lot of reasons which I won't go into here. If I hated it, I would sell it. But I'm not going to sell it because it killed most of the heads and horns that are hanging on my walls.

And BTW, I have read numerous threads and posts where the angle screw was the culprit in accuracy issues. If it was such a good design, why do people try to "fix" it?

Chill out fella...

I had an older 77 varmint in 6mm, and that rifle struggled to shoot under three inch groups at 100 yards. Of course the trigger sucked, and a few other things. I got the rifle rebuilt by a guy I've long felt was one of the top five gunsmiths in the nation. He usually wouldn't work on a bolt gun unless it was something like a Griffen & Howe. But I called in several markers. He rebedded it, and reworked the trigger like something I didn't believe possible. Recut the scallops for the rings, and may have done a shoulder set back (really couldn't tell if he did). First group the rifle shot was a 3/4" one, and the next day was shooting consistent 3/8th" groups. Knowing what I know now, I think I could have made that rifle shoot in the very low threes and maybe even the high twos.
gary
 
A couple of things to try if you have not yet.
#1 With the gun sitting on the recoil pad loosen the front screw while holding the barrel stock with the other hand. If you feel the barrel move different than the stock the bedding is wrong.
#2 Make sure the back of the tang is not binding. The tang does not have to be freefloated BUT there should be room around the back side so it is not acting like a second recoil lug.
#3 Someone mentioned the rings and I would double check them. Its a great simple system but if the tab hits before the base you have a problem.
The main reason I pillar bed my Rugers is so that the center screw is not as fussy about how tight it is.
One final thought and take this the way it is intended=to help. If you don't have the means to shorten the front action screw or just how to do it maybe its time for someone who does to work on it?
 
Well, let's see how it does in a Boyd's laminate. There's step one of project "get Ruger to shoot good 2.0"

Got it ordered, and we'll see if that makes a difference.
 
Bad idea IMHO A Boyds can be a little trouble getting a round bottomed receiver to work let alone all the corners and flats of the Ruger.
Hope you get a dremil for Christmas.....
 
Got it out of the safe tonight and tried to wiggle the mag box--it's definitely in there tight. I'll try to relieve some of the material and see how it does. As I posted above, I also ordered a Boyd's laminate, so we'll see how it does in that, too.

A genuine thank you to all who have posted, and please continue to offer your experiences and expertise!
 
I had an older 77 varmint in 6mm, and that rifle struggled to shoot under three inch groups at 100 yards. Of course the trigger sucked, and a few other things. I got the rifle rebuilt by a guy I've long felt was one of the top five gunsmiths in the nation. He usually wouldn't work on a bolt gun unless it was something like a Griffen & Howe. But I called in several markers. He rebedded it, and reworked the trigger like something I didn't believe possible. Recut the scallops for the rings, and may have done a shoulder set back (really couldn't tell if he did). First group the rifle shot was a 3/4" one, and the next day was shooting consistent 3/8th" groups. Knowing what I know now, I think I could have made that rifle shoot in the very low threes and maybe even the high twos.
gary

My 7 Mag barrel is shot out. It used to shoot about 3/4 MOA with handloads that were nothing special. My current smith is a talented guy and he likes M77's. I might just get him to give this one a make over and change it to a 284 Win. I'll need to swap bolts with someone.

And yeah... Ruger triggers are the worst!
 
Sorry to resurrect the thread, but since my last post, I've tried more ammo, 180gr Trophy Bonded Tips, and it is exhibiting the same pattern. I removed material from the mag box to ensure that it was "floating" in the stock, with no improvement in groups. It's back at the gunsmith, who is going to pull the barrel, give it a once-over, and give it back. I never tried it with the Boyd's laminate, so if it doesn't shoot well after I get it back from the 'smith, I'll put it in the Boyd's and try it out.

I bought a McMillan from stocky's since they had them on sale for $499, based on their website saying they'd "fit up to a #5 contour," which wasn't true, since my #4 was WAY too wide. So I sent it back and am still up **** creek. Oh well, still got time before season, and hopefully the gunsmith can find something.
 
444, my son has 7 model 77's and they are all good shooters, but a hunting pal had the same problem with his tang M77 years ago. He went through all the fixes and after owning it for 12 miserable years a gunsmith friend of ours looked at it and said he found the problem. The action was cracked and no one caught it. The smith said due to the action being cast they sometimes (but rarely) crack during the tightening of the barrel. He has never had it repaired and still bitches about it occasionally. I am not a gunsmith and don't know how the crack was found or if it was even there, but may be worth checking. Good luck
 
444, my son has 7 model 77's and they are all good shooters, but a hunting pal had the same problem with his tang M77 years ago. He went through all the fixes and after owning it for 12 miserable years a gunsmith friend of ours looked at it and said he found the problem. The action was cracked and no one caught it. The smith said due to the action being cast they sometimes (but rarely) crack during the tightening of the barrel. He has never had it repaired and still bitches about it occasionally. I am not a gunsmith and don't know how the crack was found or if it was even there, but may be worth checking. Good luck
Any gunsmith with a magnaflux setup (like used on automotive parts, engine blocks, heads, etc...) should be able to tell you. Magnafluxing is the most accurate and conclusive way to find very small cracks.

When I had my overpressure incident with my .25-06 AI during load development, I took it to my smith and he pulled it back apart and magnafluxed the reciever and barrel to make sure it was fine.
 
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