Ruger American Gen 2 vs Ruger American Gen 2 Rancher

[bonie]

I go for the 243 mild recoil cheap and readily available ammo in a wide range of loads. Also available in standard and GEN II

 

[Leaf Litter]

I only have a little experience with 2 RAR's vs loads and loads of experience with Tikka's, so maybe I've missed some nuance of what makes the RAR's appealing; however, based on my experience with the aforementioned rifles and some other budget oriented offerings, I'd have a really hard time not buying a Tikka compact for the purposes listed by the OP.

To cite a few differences, the Tikka has a vastly better trigger than the G1 RAR's, greater bottom metal availability for multiple magazine configurations - in addition to a flawless feeding OEM set up, higher quality OEM stocks with broader aftermarket stock and accoutrement availability, better barrels that stay cleaner longer, and overall better fit and finish.The Compact varient also offers LOP shims.

It's not to say that the RAR's are necessarily a bad rifle; I know plenty of guys who run them and are happy. Instead, its more to say that the Tikkas are that much better for not a lot more money in the grand scheme of things.

You seem to intentionally ignore the fact that tikka costs well over twice as much for similarly accessorized rifles. The Tikka T3X Veil @ $1450 is the closest in options to a standard RA2 @ $600 (fluted, cerakoted, and threaded barrel w/ useless muzzle brake.)

Or, if you'd rather build your own Tikka, the cost breaks down even worse. T3X Lite $750 + Fluted, cerakoted, and threaded Prefit barrel $700 + cheap brake $75 = $1525.

Yes Tikka is better, there's no debate needed, I built 2 for a reason. You just don't understand the appeal because you're willing to spend 250% of RA2 cost for a Tikka. RA2 is an excellent rifle option for somebody wanting to spend under $1k after tax for a rifle, rings and scope for hunting. And at that price it will still shoot well under 1 MOA when fed ammo it likes.

Not everybody spends $3k on a hunting rig.

 

[Starbuck]

You seem to intentionally ignore the fact that tikka costs well over twice as much for similarly accessorized rifles. The Tikka T3X Veil @ $1450 is the closest in options to a standard RA2 @ $600 (fluted, cerakoted, and threaded barrel w/ useless muzzle brake.)

Or, if you'd rather build your own Tikka, the cost breaks down even worse. T3X Lite $750 + Fluted, cerakoted, and threaded Prefit barrel $700 + cheap brake $75 = $1525.

Yes Tikka is better, there's no debate needed, I built 2 for a reason. You just don't understand the appeal because you're willing to spend 250% of RA2 cost for a Tikka. RA2 is an excellent rifle option for somebody wanting to spend under $1k after tax for a rifle, rings and scope for hunting. And at that price it will still shoot well under 1 MOA when fed ammo it likes.

Not everybody spends $3k on a hunting rig.

I look at it this way: I recently purchased several BNIB Tikka compacts for family/ friends/new shooters to enjoy for $700 each with tax. With an SWFA 6X or Sightron, or solid used scope, I can still be under 1k and have a high performance, rugged set up that can keep pace with any shooters' hard use and developing skill set.

No, they aren't coated and fluted and threaded, but let's face it, besides threading the other things are pretty well window dressing to attract customers; they don't overshadow or improve the fundamental mechanics. In a "budget rig" who cares what the outside of a gun looks like, especially one intended for a new shooter? Its as frivolous as ranking scopes on "glass" or outside appearance alone. To me, the very best value in anything exists in getting the most mechanically sound option, not the brand or model with the most features for the money.

And, it takes a modicum of effort to keep the exterior of a blued Tikka looking presentable. I did backpack hunts in rain and snow for years with blued/walnut rifles, and the metal on those rigs still looks near new after 25+ years of use. If oiling a gun is too much, give it a coat of Krylon; IME, it's only slightly less durable than some ceramic coatings, and it's easily reapplied!

 

[Leaf Litter]

I look at it this way: I recently purchased several BNIB Tikka compacts for family/ friends/new shooters to enjoy for $700 each with tax. With an SWFA 6X or Sightron, or solid used scope, I can still be under 1k and have a high performance, rugged set up that can keep pace with any shooters' hard use and developing skill set.

No, they aren't coated and fluted and threaded, but let's face it, besides threading the other things are pretty well window dressing to attract customers; they don't overshadow or improve the fundamental mechanics. In a "budget rig" who cares what the outside of a gun looks like, especially one intended for a new shooter? Its as frivolous as ranking scopes on "glass" or outside appearance alone. To me, the very best value in anything exists in getting the most mechanically sound option, not the brand or model with the most features for the money.

And, it takes a modicum of effort to keep the exterior of a blued Tikka looking presentable. I did backpack hunts in rain and snow for years with blued/walnut rifles, and the metal on those rigs still looks near new after 25+ years of use. If oiling a gun is too much, give it a coat of Krylon; IME, it's only slightly less durable than some ceramic coatings, and it's easily reapplied!

Threading, fluting and coating are VERY freaking far from window dressing and your entire price argument is predicated on luck and buying someone else's used crap. My point remains

 

[Starbuck]

Threading, fluting and coating are VERY freaking far from window dressing and your entire price argument is predicated on luck and buying someone else's used crap.

In your opinion, what mechanical functions do exterior coatings and fluting improve?

I have rigs with various coatings and fluted barrels/bolts. I didnt select these features specifically; instead, they just happened to come on rigs/actions that I bought based on other criteria. I don't notice much if any difference in functionality in them over similar models without such esthetic embellishments, and, based on these experiences, I suspect that many drastic differences I've seen/heard described with these features are more attributional than actual. I had several guns with fluted bolts that didn't cycle and feed/eject as smooth as a stock, unfulted Tikka bolt. Likewise, I have rigs with fluted barrels that walk all over the place when heated up, while I have stock Tikkas with unfluted barrels that can be shot 20 times without a break and don't change POI. Weight savings might be a valid difference, but it's minimal.

Coatings to keep the inside of a barrel/action pristine might be worth a look; the outside is just for show. Threading can be a great boon for a can or break; however, like most people I see at the range or afield, I generally don't use either for hunting or for a good portion of my recreational shooting. Point being that it's not an option everyone has use for, and it's certainly not a requirement for reliable funtion. Threading is also cheap to have done if/when the need arises.

The prices I quoted are available to all, no luck required - except for finding an SWFA 6X in stock. The $700 didn't even include the $75 rebate from Tikka that was applicable last year. I will also note that many of the 6X SWFA's I've bought were on sale for quite a bit less than $300. Many Sightrons and Burris FF2 can be had new for around $200. I'm sure there's other solid scopes in this price range as well, but I'm only citing the ones with which I've had direct, positive experiences.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

In your opinion, what mechanical functions do exterior coatings and fluting improve?

I have rigs with various coatings and fluted barrels/bolts. I didnt select these features specifically; instead, they just happened to come on rigs/actions that I bought based on other criteria. I don't notice much if any difference in functionality in them over similar models without such esthetic embellishments, and, based on these experiences, I suspect that many drastic differences I've seen/heard described with these features are more attributional than actual. I had several guns with fluted bolts that didn't cycle and feed/eject as smooth as a stock, unfulted Tikka bolt. Likewise, I have rigs with fluted barrels that walk all over the place when heated up, while I have stock Tikkas with unfluted barrels that can be shot 20 times without a break and don't change POI. Weight savings might be a valid difference, but it's minimal.

Coatings to keep the inside of a barrel/action pristine might be worth a look; the outside is just for show. Threading can be a great boon for a can or break; however, like most people I see at the range or afield, I generally don't use either for hunting or for a good portion of my recreational shooting. Point being that it's not an option everyone has use for, and it's certainly not a requirement for reliable funtion. Threading is also cheap to have done if/when the need arises.

The prices I quoted are available to all, no luck required - except for finding an SWFA 6X in stock. The $700 didn't even include the $75 rebate from Tikka that was applicable last year. I will also note that many of the 6X SWFA's I've bought were on sale for quite a bit less than $300. Many Sightrons and Burris FF2 can be had new for around $200. I'm sure there's other solid scopes in this price range as well, but I'm only citing the ones with which I've had direct, positive experiences.

Cerakote keeps metal from rusting and corroding. Tikkas are some of the worst rust buckets I've ever owned, even their SS rifles will develop some rust, the blued versions are way worse. The outside of the barrel and receiver and the underside (where it traps moisture between the action and stock) are far more likely to rust than action that's being cycled or the bore which is getting cleaned and impregnated with carbon and copper and receiving abrasion from bullets passing down it.

Fluting reduces weight, improves cooling, and looks good.

If that stuff isn't important to you that's fine, but dismissing them as pointless because you don't understand the value in them is pretty dumb. Same to threads for a suppressor just because you don't use them, plenty of people do and that's valuable. The ruger comes with a thread protector if you don't want to use a brake or can. Threading a standard weight Tikka is quite frankly a PITA due to the diameter and it ends up a less than ideal thread or half assed with a collar or thread adaptor.

After my last round of Tikkas that fed when they wanted to, shot differently when it was hot or cool out (their synthetic stocks suck), and had ejection issues I'd roll the dice with the Ruger personally.

 

[Starbuck]

Cerakote keeps metal from rusting and corroding. Tikkas are some of the worst rust buckets I've ever owned, even their SS rifles will develop some rust, the blued versions are way worse. The outside of the barrel and receiver and the underside (where it traps moisture between the action and stock) are far more likely to rust than action that's being cycled or the bore which is getting cleaned and impregnated with carbon and copper and receiving abrasion from bullets passing down it.

Fluting reduces weight, improves cooling, and looks good.

If that stuff isn't important to you that's fine, but dismissing them as pointless because you don't understand the value in them is pretty dumb. Same to threads for a suppressor just because you don't use them, plenty of people do and that's valuable. The ruger comes with a thread protector if you don't want to use a brake or can. Threading a standard weight Tikka is quite frankly a PITA due to the diameter and it ends up a less than ideal thread or half assed with a collar or thread adaptor.

After my last round of Tikkas that fed when they wanted to, shot differently when it was hot or cool out (their synthetic stocks suck), and had ejection issues I'd roll the dice with the Ruger.

I acknowledged that threads can be a great boon.

Before you get too far with derisive statements about what I do or don't understand, I'll reiterate that I have a few well used rigs that were coated. Coatings chip and scratch with even moderate carry in rough country; the metal underneath then rusts if not oiled. Still, even if the gun rusts a bit on the outside, it's not impactful to function so long as the barrel and chamber area are in good shape. As such, IME, it's ultimate utility is limited due to these facts.

I'm not saying that fluting doesn't provide more surface area for cooling, but it's been my experience that whatever extra it does provide isn't enough to conclusively state that a fluted barrel will experience less heat related shifts in POI than a non fluted barrel for hunting and recreational shooting. Maybe there's been studies on the subject that I haven't seen? There's a lot more to heat related shifts in POI than external rate of cooling. Literally the worst barrel I ever had as far as heat related shifts in POI was fluted, whereas most all of the Tikkas I've shot a lot weren't adversely affected by shooting many, many shots in a row without cooling in between.

Not saying you haven't got a bad Tikka or two, just saying that I've owned a lot of them and have yet to experience the issues you stated happened with one or more of them. Have a couple blued metal models that haventvrecieved the best regular care, and yet they still look good. The SS models I have are rust free.

 

[cajun]

Buddy bought a RAR go wild 16" For his grandkid in 6.5 cm. Slick little gun. Shot the 129 gr Hornady factory and 140 gr eld hand loads really well. Got a little muzzle blast with the brake on it. He's putting a can on it.

 

[Starbuck]

The discussion in this thread on the efficacy of barrel fluting in rifle functionality piqued my interest. My thoughts on it were derived from my own experiences with several fluted barrels vs similar contour non fluted, which is too small of a sample size to be reliably indicative of larger trends. As such, I did a little research. Found that this subject has been studied in a controlled setting. The following excerpt from Brian Litz sums up what I found: "Fluted barrels showed measurably more POI shift compared to barrels of the same contour that weren't fluted."

Talked to an acquaintance of mine who is an outboard motor engineer and a competitive shooter. His explanation included that a barrel would have to have fins, not flutes in order for there to be differences in cooling, and he thought that such an appraoch was still unlikely to yield measurable differences. He also said that all things being equal, getting rid of material through fluting actually increases the rate of heating and heat related effects, and that the process of cutting the barrel will introduce more stress into the metal.

Certainly, fluting can acount for weight differences, but on standard contour barrels, the flutes aren't typically deep enough to count for more than a couple of ounces.

 

[MSURunner]

<quote edited for context>
The following excerpt from Brian Litz sums up what I found: "Fluted barrels showed measurably more POI shift compared to barrels of the same contour that weren't fluted.
Certainly, fluting can account for weight differences, but on standard contour barrels, the flutes aren't typically deep enough to count for more than a couple of ounces.

This is 100% true, but the caveat there is "of the same contour." A fluted barrel will, even if marginally, weigh less than a non-fluted of the same contour. As per the cooling, I've had it explained that a bead blasted finish will actually increase surface area more than flutes on a polished barrel, given the incredible amount of micro-contours added.

Even if it's just window dressing, some people like the look, and if that's what floats your boat and it's cheaper, that's a great feature.

Coming back to the OP question and the desire to use a suppressor, there is now a NEED for threads. Putting the threads on a T3 Compact is certainly doable, but to be able to have something with enough of a shoulder for the suppressor/mount starts becoming an issue. Not an unsolvable one, but an issue nonetheless. Adding the threading to the end of the muzzle will also be a cost that needs to be accounted for. If the OP does not have access to a lathe, it begins to become a greater expense versus the one time expense of the RA.

 

[7mmshooter#1]

Im looking at purchasing one of the new Ruger American Gen 2s for my son, mainly for the adjustable LOP so he can grow into it. I have a silencer co omega 36m ordered to pair with it. Would there be enough velocity lost to matter in a hunting situation (whitetail say at 300yds) in the ranch 16" barrel + 7" silencer vs the standard American with a 20" barrel + 7" silencer? The shorter barrel is more attractive for manuverablity with the added silencer, but dont want to afffect killing power at the 200-300yd range. In the ranch I would go with the 6.5CM in the standard i would go with the 7mm-08 based on current offerings. Any input would be appreciated.

For OP, IMO the shorter the better for the barrel with a suppressor and hunting out of a blind or treestand. You won't see a difference in 16 or 20" in performance but the muzzle blast is a difference and you'll notice the 16" much more. I've got a both lengths and an 18" in 6.5 CMs and even the Ruger muzzle brakes aren't very good for hearing. I replace them all with a linear compensator. Either caliber fine but I do think you can load lighter with a more suitable range of lighter bullets with the 6.5cm especially if you load your own. I've been shooting alot of deer and coyotes with a 6.5 grendel at 2450-2500 fps muzzle using 120 gr NBTs and 123 gr SST's. Inside your range, I can't see that I'd want more. Ballistic data isn't spectactular but the DRT performance is from 40-220 yds. Something about that style of bullet at that lower MV just does more than you can ever see on paper. Now I've been putting together a 6.5 CM load that is around this velocity for my kids.. Hope that helps.