Rookie neck tension question

[Rosebud]

My personal use dies are Forster shoulder bump neck bushing . That is a mouth full! I don't bump with them until I see a slightly stiff bolt when closing and the bushing is the minimal amount to hold the bullet.

They come with three bushings sets or you can just buy the bushing you prefer. These are all used in hunting rifles and chamber easily.
Only problem is that you can't use the loaded rounds in a different rifle. They are form fit to your rifle only.
At the present forster only has a full length bushing die for 7PRC. This would be a easy button for you at this point in your loading experience.

 

[MarkInPA]

My personal use dies are Forster shoulder bump neck bushing . That is a mouth full! I don't bump with them until I see a slightly stiff bolt when closing and the bushing is the minimal amount to hold the bullet.

They come with three bushings sets or you can just buy the bushing you prefer. These are all used in hunting rifles and chamber easily.
Only problem is that you can't use the loaded rounds in a different rifle. They are form fit to your rifle only.
At the present forster only has a full length bushing die for 7PRC. This would be a easy button for you at this point in your loading experience.

My personal use dies are Forster shoulder bump neck bushing . That is a mouth full! I don't bump with them until I see a slightly stiff bolt when closing and the bushing is the minimal amount to hold the bullet.

They come with three bushings sets or you can just buy the bushing you prefer. These are all used in hunting rifles and chamber easily.
Only problem is that you can't use the loaded rounds in a different rifle. They are form fit to your rifle only.
At the present forster only has a full length bushing die for 7PRC. This would be a easy button for you at this point in your loading experience.

These dies are NOT sizing the body? Correct?

 

[Alibiiv]

Thanks for sharing, Randy.

What Randy Tidell said and more. What you have written is that you may be looking at hunting at ranges out to 700 yards. 700 yards is not a simple walk in the park, well at least for some of us, so you want reliable ammunition that is capable of reaching out that far to take ethical shots at game. I have read the replies up to #27. I have not read anything about addressing the donut. No matter what method you use to adjust neck tension, sooner or later there will be a donut and it has to be addressed to maintain a proper neck tension. When brass is shot and reloaded it is going to stretch, when it stretches that material has to move and has to go somewhere, thus the donut. Annealing is the first step in the process, no matter what process one chooses. My experience is to either remove the donut from the neck with a mandrel, meaning pushing the donut material to the outside of the neck and then turn the necks or FL resize and ream the neck out with the proper sized reamer. Presently I FL resize with the expander plug removed, set the neck tension with a Sinclair mandrel die and then turn the necks with a Forster neck turning tool that also doubles as my case trimmer. Neck turning is not that big of a deal once one is set up and has ruined a few cases figuring out how it works. With turning the necks, the neck thickness is maintained with the inside of the neck and the thickness/concentricity of the neck (outside inside/neck thickness) is consistently maintained. My thoughts are that reaming will remove the donut, however, depending on the maker of the brass, not all of the neck thicknesses are going to be controlled by this process, nor will the concentricity of the neck to the case will be maintained. A neck reamer will not correct neck material that is not concentric with the outside of the neck. Reaming will only serve to remove material with the cutting edges (front) of the reamer and follow the existing neck. What I am saying here is that any variations in the thickness of the neck wall will make it impossible to set a consistent neck tension, and that any variations of neck thickness has to be addressed before using a mandrel or using a bushing die.

I would like to thank you for acknowledging and engaging with the replies that you are getting with this thread. Oftentimes members will take the time to share their knowledge and comments and the OP will not acknowledge that they read the reply with a simple "LIKE" . Thanks for doing this, I am sure many of the readers of this post appreciate this as well.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

What Randy Tidell said and more. What you have written is that you may be looking at hunting at ranges out to 700 yards. 700 yards is not a simple walk in the park, well at least for some of us, so you want reliable ammunition that is capable of reaching out that far to take ethical shots at game. I have read the replies up to #27.

Ali, we are on the same page.

OP has asked some very good questions and responded well to posts intended to help.

Ali, you touched on an area that many don't understand, the dredded donut.

Watch this short video, really covers it well.


My procedure is to ream the inside, but I do it differently. I use a Wilson case trimmer with custom reamers I had made.

As an example for my PPC, I use a reamer with 2 steps ground into it; lead .2415", finish at .242. I turn my cases to a thickness that yields an ID of .242 after firing. When the donut starts forming, the reamer initially cuts the bulk of the donut out with the lead, then produces a near perfect finish with the next step.

I also keep pin gauges on .0005 increments for each caliber to confirm I'm getting the desired ID.
I have 8 to 10 pins for each caliber I load.
Pin gauges are reasonably priced at McMaster-Carr.

Using pins to confirm ID is the best way I've found. When you insert a .2415 pin in a .242 ID, you can feel how smooth it is the entire length of the neck and the dinut if one has firmed.. You know you have a perfect fit when you a pop when the pin is removed. Makes me smile everytime.

Hope I explained myself well.

 

[Rosebud]

These dies are NOT sizing the body? Correct?

Correct, they only neck size. If you find some tight to chamber rounds then bump back the shoulder about two thousands. instruction is in the die package.

Once you fire the cartridge its formed to fit your chamber. Only your chamber. Just size the neck back to the tension you want to hold the bullet. Easy peasy loading . very little lube needed, just some on the necks.

At some point several times loaded you may need to full length size again, the start back to neck sizing again. But by that time your brass may be toast.

 

[MarkInPA]

Ali, we are on the same page.

OP has asked some very good questions and responded well to posts intended to help.

Ali, you touched on an area that many don't understand, the dredded donut.

Watch this short video, really covers it well.


My procedure is to ream the inside, but I do it differently. I use a Wilson case trimmer with custom reamers I had made.

As an example for my PPC, I use a reamer with 2 steps ground into it; lead .2415", finish at .242. I turn my cases to a thickness that yields an ID of .242 after firing. When the donut starts forming, the reamer initially cuts the bulk of the donut out with the lead, then produces a near perfect finish with the next step.

I also keep pin gauges on .0005 increments for each caliber to confirm I'm getting the desired ID.
I have 8 to 10 pins for each caliber I load.
Pin gauges are reasonably priced at McMaster-Carr.

Using pins to confirm ID is the best way I've found. When you insert a .2415 pin in a .242 ID, you can feel how smooth it is the entire length of the neck and the dinut if one has firmed.. You know you have a perfect fit when you a pop when the pin is removed. Makes me smile everytime.

Hope I explained myself well.

Randy, How many times do you need to reload your cases before a donut begins to form?

 

[JAYgs8163]

I just went down this road but I've been reloading for about 15 years but never paid much attention to neck tension. I have numerous dies and did not want to replace any of them so I bought the 21st Century window expander dies, short and long. I then bought the Mandrels .002 and .003 under for each caliber I reload for in 308, 284, 277, 264, 257, 243, and 224. I have now removed the expander ball from my full length sizing dies. I also purchased a decapping die.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

Alot of factors; chamber, brass, how hot the load is. Etc.

I've seen them start after third firing and seen cases that never get them.

If you have cases that need trimming alot, the donuts will appear faster. They come.from shoulder material being pushed into the neck/ shoulder junction.

 

[VinceMule]

OP, as a new reloader, save yourself a LOT of grief and aggrivation and get a set of Forster Benchrest dies. I would not advise you to get into mandrels, bushings until you have a couple of seasons of reloading under your belt. To go from a Novice reloader to the most advanced reloader is a fool's errand unless you have a machinist background.

 

[JAYgs8163]

OP, as a new reloader, save yourself a LOT of grief and aggrivation and get a set of Forster Benchrest dies. I would not advise you to get into mandrels, bushings until you have a couple of seasons of reloading under your belt. To go from a Novice reloader to the most advanced reloader is a fool's errand unless you have a machinist background.

It's a process for sure and a learning process. One needs to slowdown and take their time and double check everything. Well, I do anyways……

 

[Randy Tidwell]

Vince, not sure I completely disagree.

OP seems to have a pretty good grasp just by his willingness to ask.

This rabbit hole is not difficult if you take the time to research and understand it.

My only thing is to make sure he understands just how much he will gain based on his equipment, components, and ability.

Paying attention to neck tension is not going to magically improve his accuracy nor make dramatic gains.

Like I said earlier, with a factory rifle and soso components. Would prob see the difference.

 

[Alibiiv]

I just went down this road but I've been reloading for about 15 years but never paid much attention to neck tension. I have numerous dies and did not want to replace any of them so I bought the 21st Century window expander dies, short and long. I then bought the Mandrels .002 and .003 under for each caliber I reload for in 308, 284, 277, 264, 257, 243, and 224. I have now removed the expander ball from my full length sizing dies. I also purchased a decapping die.

View attachment 641780

What I have done with the expander ball is to make it collateral damage. Meaning that I place the stem of the die with the expander and using a sanding drum in my Dremell tool I turn the drill press on and grind the outside diameter of the expander down to the point where it not longer functions as an expander. I them place it back into the die and deprime with it. This saves me a step in the reloading process. It will deprime, yet the expander doesn't hit the neck. One less step in the process. I too have a universal depriming tool as well.

 

[JAYgs8163]

What I have done with the expander ball is to make it collateral damage. Meaning that I place the stem of the die with the expander and using a sanding drum in my Dremell tool I turn the drill press on and grind the outside diameter of the expander down to the point where it not longer functions as an expander. I them place it back into the die and deprime with it. This saves me a step in the reloading process. It will deprime, yet the expander doesn't hit the neck. One less step in the process. I too have a universal depriming tool as well.

I do the same depending on the type of die but I just remove the expander ball on some of my resizing dies. Most of my resizing dies are Redding Master Hunter dies with carbide expander balls.

 

[cajun]

Redding FL Bushing dies are all I use. Plenty happy with that setup

Are you using the expander or a mandrel after sizing? Or just the bushing?