Right Out Of The Box----

[Trickymissfit]

I have to put another one (kudo) in for Savage. I good friend just bought a Model 16 in 223 Remington and gave him half a box of OFMB LC, full prep (by me) and loaded with 60 grain Vmax bullets.

Observing the Savage recommended break in (something I alwys stress), at 100 yards (no long range yet) with a Leupy Rifleman on the mounts (Warne), he put the last 4 shots in the same hole with no modifications to the rifle whatsoever and rounds were built for my Ruger, not the Savage.

IMO, for out of the Box, economically priced rifles, Savage is **** hard to top.

I'm looking for at least 1/2MOA or better at 200 with built for loads.

I've seen more than a couple Savages in .223 with in the 12BVSS and 112BVSS configuration shoot five shot groups in the .31" range without any serious difficulty. I'd hate to see how one from the custom shop with a select barrel (but still factory cut) would shoot. Better yet would be the samething in .222 Remington and a 1:12 twist barrel. I believe it would be little trouble trying to make it shoot quarter inch five shot groups

I'd love to see Savage do the 12BVSS-s in 30BR and .222 and maybe even .250 Savage. The .250 in an improved for is border line rediculous in the way they shoot! I'd be lining up right now is they cataloged a 6mm remington again in the 112 action
gary

 

[SidecarFlip]

Gary, I keep forgetting to download the bike pictures to your e-mail address. I do that tomorrow. Brit bike candy is always nice.

Forgetfulness comes with age. I have trouble remembering where I put my readers at times.......

I'm very impressed with his Savage. My 11 Lightweight Hunter in 308 will do almost that good as well it has become my favorite rifle not only becaue it shoots well but because it shoulders well too and it's light. Would be lighter with a MacMillan but it's not bad as it sits in stock form.

Interestingly, my friend with the 223 likes my 308 so much, he ordered one as well.

I just got 3- 100 round boxes of Hornady 60 grain Vmax's in 22 caliber for him. I'm waiting for my Top Brass order to come in and I'll do a ladder for the 223 and we shall see if it can get any tighter. He's a weekend varmit hunter btw.

Normally I buy my brass in OF bulk from Wideners for the 22 caliber but this time from Top Brass. TB cleans, removes the crimp, uniforms the pockets and FL resizes prior to shipment, saving me time. I got 500 306's coming as well as 1000 223's. It's on a 16 week timeframe but I'm in no hurry anyway. Got a couple weeks to go.

The price difference between Wideners and TB isn't much considering the shortened prep time.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary, I keep forgetting to download the bike pictures to your e-mail address. I do that tomorrow. Brit bike candy is always nice.

Forgetfulness comes with age. I have trouble remembering where I put my readers at times.......

I'm very impressed with his Savage. My 11 Lightweight Hunter in 308 will do almost that good as well it has become my favorite rifle not only becaue it shoots well but because it shoulders well too and it's light. Would be lighter with a MacMillan but it's not bad as it sits in stock form.

Interestingly, my friend with the 223 likes my 308 so much, he ordered one as well.

I just got 3- 100 round boxes of Hornady 60 grain Vmax's in 22 caliber for him. I'm waiting for my Top Brass order to come in and I'll do a ladder for the 223 and we shall see if it can get any tighter. He's a weekend varmit hunter btw.

Normally I buy my brass in OF bulk from Wideners for the 22 caliber but this time from Top Brass. TB cleans, removes the crimp, uniforms the pockets and FL resizes prior to shipment, saving me time. I got 500 306's coming as well as 1000 223's. It's on a 16 week timeframe but I'm in no hurry anyway. Got a couple weeks to go.

The price difference between Wideners and TB isn't much considering the shortened prep time.

used to buy a lot of brass from Blue Star, but have not bought any from them in awhile. By the way I've found somebody that's got a .220 Jaybird reamer, and know where a brand new fast twist Savage varmit barrel is that can be had for a song. Should really be a killer pushing 80 grain bullets. But the real interest is in necking it up to 6mm, or maybe even 6.5 caliber
gary

 

[SidecarFlip]

used to buy a lot of brass from Blue Star, but have not bought any from them in awhile. By the way I've found somebody that's got a .220 Jaybird reamer, and know where a brand new fast twist Savage varmit barrel is that can be had for a song. Should really be a killer pushing 80 grain bullets. But the real interest is in necking it up to 6mm, or maybe even 6.5 caliber
gary

Gary...

In between the time I posted that comment and now, of course I received the TB casings, 500 in 308 and 1000 in 223 plus another batch of OFMB from Wideners in 308 again... (I load a pile of brass it seems....)

Anyway, true to their website advertising, the Top Brass casings were F/L resized and at the SAMMI OAL +- 0.003, cleaned and uniformed. I did have to prep the flash holes and touch up the pockets (I'm a bit more particular than they are, obviously). Overall, it was a time saver and IMO, worth the extra funds but the lead time was convoluted. It's one of those deals where it's a 'plan ahead, well in advance'. Last time I checked, TB was not accepting any new orders for prepped brass, in any caliber, but I have to say additionally, their flat rate shipping ($15.00) for any quantity to your door is also a bargain.

I bought and received an additional 500 in 308 from Wideners as well. Those had the usual culls (collapsed necks and crimped in case mouths), about 2% of the 500, a usual number (for bulk buy second tier OFMB) and dirty as hell.

If I knew I could use really serious numbers of OFMB in 308 or 223 (5.56NATO) or 50 BMG, I'd buy direct. I'm on the bid list but I'd have to go pick 'em up and it's still a crapshoot because you can't sort the good from the bad and ugly, you purchase by weight, not quality or quantity.

My handloading spikes in mid summer because the group is gearing up for fall. That cycle gives me ample time to attain powder, primers, pills and brass with the extreme lead times we are experiencing as of late.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary...

In between the time I posted that comment and now, of course I received the TB casings, 500 in 308 and 1000 in 223 plus another batch of OFMB from Wideners in 308 again... (I load a pile of brass it seems....)

Anyway, true to their website advertising, the Top Brass casings were F/L resized and at the SAMMI OAL +- 0.003, cleaned and uniformed. I did have to prep the flash holes and touch up the pockets (I'm a bit more particular than they are, obviously). Overall, it was a time saver and IMO, worth the extra funds but the lead time was convoluted. It's one of those deals where it's a 'plan ahead, well in advance'. Last time I checked, TB was not accepting any new orders for prepped brass, in any caliber, but I have to say additionally, their flat rate shipping ($15.00) for any quantity to your door is also a bargain.

I bought and received an additional 500 in 308 from Wideners as well. Those had the usual culls (collapsed necks and crimped in case mouths), about 2% of the 500, a usual number (for bulk buy second tier OFMB) and dirty as hell.

If I knew I could use really serious numbers of OFMB in 308 or 223 (5.56NATO) or 50 BMG, I'd buy direct. I'm on the bid list but I'd have to go pick 'em up and it's still a crapshoot because you can't sort the good from the bad and ugly, you purchase by weight, not quality or quantity.

My handloading spikes in mid summer because the group is gearing up for fall. That cycle gives me ample time to attain powder, primers, pills and brass with the extreme lead times we are experiencing as of late.

I'm working on a .223 experiment right now (we not exactly this minute). The cases are going to be Lake City N.M. that are once fired. The rifles that shoot them are police sniper's rifles with match chambers. Getting the cases took a lot of arm pulling, and calling in at least three markers. These are not run of the mill Lake City cases. Supposed to get at least 500, and probably closer to 1000 cases. The cases are built heavier than what I now use, and that's important right now. About 100 of them will end up being resized to .222 Remington with a .244" neck diameter. I figure I'll go thru a 150 cases to get them into the window I'm after. Then it's onto the .223 project. These cases will be built for the Remington only. I want to tighten the neck up at least .003", after turning them. The cases I have right now are shaved to about .241" to .242", and go into a .246" chamber. I want to try a true .244" finished neck. Can't get there with any commercial cases I've found yet. I am trying to pick up another .075" to .100" in my groups sizes. I figure that if I cut .10" out of the five shot groups, I can gain another 75 yards of usable range. But then I'd also wish it had a ten twist barrel!
gary

 

[CB11WYO]

Dang, look at savage!

 

[rjmarine]

for me the coopers i have are the best shooting right out of the box factory rifles.
i have 1 in 221 fireball that when new would shoot in the 1's and 2's with my hand loads and 2 in 25x47 that shoot almost that good
them i ordered an ULTRA LIGHT ARMS a cpl yrs back in 25x47 and the first 3 shots measured .375. i feel for factory rifles these are all very good . i do have a few custom rifles that will also shoot this well and better but that is for another thread

 

[SidecarFlip]

I see no one voted for the Henry. Understandable, in as much as most Henry's sold are chambered for pistol rounds, but I have to say that for rifle work under 100 yards, the Henry will do just fine plus it has to be the smoothest cycling lever gun I've ever shot. Yes, I own one chambered in 44 Remington Magnum with a full, mirror polished brass receiver, octagon barrel and iron sights.

The craftsmanship is flawless, the furniture is beautiful and it's more of a wall hanger than a beat around lever rifle. Mine hangs on the wall btw.

I chose the 44 magnum chamberinbg to compliment my S&W 44 revolver. I send 240 grain Sierra Sportsmasters with H335 as the propellant in both guns.

An all around great whitetail round in either firearm.

 

[Mike 338]

I see no one voted for the Henry. Understandable, in as much as most Henry's sold are chambered for pistol rounds, but I have to say that for rifle work under 100 yards, the Henry will do just fine plus it has to be the smoothest cycling lever gun I've ever shot. Yes, I own one chambered in 44 Remington Magnum with a full, mirror polished brass receiver, octagon barrel and iron sights.

The craftsmanship is flawless, the furniture is beautiful and it's more of a wall hanger than a beat around lever rifle. Mine hangs on the wall btw.

I chose the 44 magnum chamberinbg to compliment my S&W 44 revolver. I send 240 grain Sierra Sportsmasters with H335 as the propellant in both guns.

An all around great whitetail round in either firearm.

Thanks for reminding me. After agonizing over recent Marylyn/Rem crap, I don't how I ever overlooked Henry. Don't overlook the Sierra 210's either.

 

[benchracer]

I have to go with CZ on this one. I have never seen an inaccurate CZ, although I am sure a bad one slips out now and then. In my experience, CZ rifles will shoot just as accurately out of the box as anything out there, maybe a bit better. On top of that, you get a much higher quality rifle for the money. It is possible to outperform a CZ and to have higher build quality, but you will have to spend twice the money to get there.

CZ is my first choice. The FN made Winchesters are a close second.

In this day and age, I would submit that we rifleman are truly blessed with the range of choices we have today. The truth is, just about every manufacturer turns out accurate rifles. You can choose your price point and the other features, but there are a lot of accurate rifles being made these days. There are CHEAP rifles that shoot accurately, there are rifles that offer VALUE for the money, and there are custom rifles where the SKY IS THE LIMIT.

My comfort zone is in the VALUE category. I like to have an accurate rifle that is also a joy to own, carry, and shoot. Regardless of which category of rifle one prefers, the beauty is that there is an accurate rifle available for almost any budget.

 

[Eaglet]

benchracer,

I like your post. Nice!

 

[GunDoc7]

I unfortunately had to vote for Savage. I say "unfortunately" because at the start of my firearms fascination years ago Savage wasn't highly looked upon, especially their actions. However, over the recent years Savage has turned it around and is truly the manufacture you'll get the best bang for your buck for a hunting rifle. Back in the day (Belgium and early Japan models) Browning would have been my vote hands down, but just as many manufactures have lately their quality has taken a huge turn for the worse. I tell many of my customers now to stick with a trusted, good condition, used gun purchase.

 

[Varberger757]

They are not on the list, but very hard to match! I'm talking about Heym's models SR 21 + straight pull SR 30. Superb accuracy, and, and, and... the whole package shows craftmanship at its best. gun)

 

[gohring3006]

my Thompson center was cheap and sub moa with WalMart ammo hard to beat that with rifles that cost three times as much