Rifling

[MagnumManiac]

The only true and measurable difference I have personally seen between premium cut rifled and premium button rifled barrels is how long they last. When I say premium, this means they are hand lapped before ANY machining is done.
Cut rifled barrels have always lasted longer for me, but this does not mean that one is more accurate than the other because I have had them both outdo another and the two types on average are fairly equal.
I will not use a pushed button rifled barrel, saw one with wide and thin grooves that no-one could explain. For me, it has to be pulled button only.

Cheers.

 

[VinceMule]

What ever barrel you use, you should inspect with a bore scope for machining quality, and do NOT rely on the Name of the barrel! This is a very, very expensive lesson to learn the hard way!

From what the talking heads say, 5R is easier on Hornady ELD-Match jackets.

 

[Taj]

Is cut rifling really better than button rifling, if so why

Button rifling imposes a lot of stress on barrel steel. I have seen button rifled barrels that have "flaked" or spalled off corners of the lands due to stresses imposed during the process. I had dinner with John Kreiger last year when he was on a visit to the Coeur D' Alene area. John and I are both skydivers (even at 70-something years old) and pre 64 Model 70 guys so always have a lot to talk about. He explained that no matter how tightly it is controlled, barrel blanks are never the same hardness from end to end. This can create varying states of quality / refinement and hardness to the point of brittleness of a button rifled barrel. Even if stress relieved, hardness will vary and minute fractures would have already occurred during the process. He pre contours his barrels before single point cutting his rifling, one groove at a time. Cuts are made at .0002 ( 2 ten thou) at a time. Because each cut is so shallow, there are virtually no stresses imparted to the barrel blank/ finished product. As a machinist/gunsmith, this is something that makes absolute sense to me.

 

[skipglo]

At least you asked a question with a 50/50 answer probability of outcome....and now you only have to choose between the two! Personal choice is all that everyone of these 60,000+ questions asked here boils down to! What's the best scope? 15,000 responses .. no difinitive conclusion...narrowed down to only 15 POSSIBLE CHOICES....WHATS THE BEST KILLING BULLET....Only 80,000 different responses ...What's the ultimate Long Range caliber....80,000 different opinions....at the end of 40 pages of rhetoric.....only you make the decision and are now more confused than helped! Sorry...to answer your question CUT rifling! Just me....but don't tell the Button barrel manufacturers I said this!

 

[VinceMule]

I like cut rifle barrels now, Brux and Krieger. Having said that, I have shot out 10x the number of button rifle barrels that shot fantastic, Hart, Lilja, Shilen, Pac Nor, Lothar Walthar.

I have looked at a lot of barrels using a bore scope, and can tell you that Cut Rifle barrels are easier to really make a mess of vs button rifle barrels. The Cut rifle barrels can have defective or Dull cutters, screwed up indexing are problematic. Service after the sale of any barrel maker is paramount, and it you ever hear them tell you, "shoot it and see how it shoots" you know you are really screwed.

Soon will be trying ABC barrels, and I believe they are a button rifle company, will have to verify this.

The folks at Krieger set the industry standard on "service after the sale", fine group of men!

 

[Taj]

I like cut rifle barrels now, Brux and Krieger. Having said that, I have shot out 10x the number of button rifle barrels that shot fantastic, Hart, Lilja, Shilen, Pac Nor, Lothar Walthar.

I have looked at a lot of barrels using a bore scope, and can tell you that Cut Rifle barrels are easier to really make a mess of vs button rifle barrels with defective or Dull cutters, screwed up indexing are problematic. Service after the sale of any barrel maker is paramount, and it you ever hear them tell you, "shoot it and see how it shoots" you know you are really screwed.

Soon will be trying ABC barrels, and I believe they are a button rifle company, will have to verify this.

The folks at Krieger set the industry standard on "service after the sale", fine group of men!

Roger that. There is a reason so many Hi-power shooter and military gunsmiths that support the teams use Kreiger barrels. They have been doing it for a long time. John's Son pretty much runs the day to day business of the company, but John says that he still goes to the shop on a weekly basis if nothing more than to keep an eye on things. He is a real gentleman and certainly knows his stuff.

 

[VinceMule]

Some of the barrel makers have Old School customer service that is foundational in the Customers being the Key to their business.

 

[Taj]

Some of the barrel makers have Old School customer service that is foundational in the Customers being the Key to their business.

Isn't that the truth. A human voice on the phone, returning phone calls . Honest work for a fair wage. All seem to be going away these days.

 

[lyle2231]

Didn't mean not to personally answer your question. There are so many "Opinions" on different Rifling. There are many Posts on this subject here on LRH. If you are looking at "Accuracy" many championships are won on Cut 5R along with Button. We shoot both and have had barrels that shoot in the same hole.
Now just speaking about Rifling you have to also look at the Manufacture of the Barrel, the Process, the material.
As Mikecr stated with Cut Rifling has less STRESS during the "Cutting" but when doing the Button there is a HEAT Treatment to relieve the STRESS.
I could write a few pages of the processes and the history, but it's already in many posts before this one.

And then there's guys that swear by hammer forged barrels.

 

[Taj]

And then there's guys that swear by hammer forged barrels.

Brother you are absolutely right. I think that any of the modern day barrel making processes can turn out a very accurate barrel, as long as care is taken. Experience is a big factor in any of the methods used to make barrels. A guy needs to go with what works for him---until it doesn't.

 

[Taj]

When I was in the LE business, there were several local agencies that bought Styer SSGs for there SWAT CS rifles. They all had cold hammer forged barrels. Not sure if this was a Styer issue or a hammer forged barrel issue (stress relieveing) but those guns all had a real issue with a cold bore shot. There could be as much as 3-4 inches on some rifles. They all eventually went away.

 

[Mikecr]

Isn't that the truth. A human voice on the phone, returning phone calls . Honest work for a fair wage. All seem to be going away these days.

I prefer email, so that every number and technical matter is committed to in black & white.
If a business won't do that, they don't get my business.

 

[Taj]

I prefer email, so that every number and technical matter is committed to in black & white.
If a business won't do that, they don't get my business.

That's all fine and good but a face to face so that there is no confusion about services or what is expected from both parties is a good way of doing business as well as a signature on a work order. Some customers either don't use correct references for work being done or don't understand the process and these are areas for confusion on both sides of the equation.

 

[Laguna Freak]

Before I started turning barrels I was almost exclusively using Brux. I believed cut was the best. When I got to the point of doing my own work, I started experimenting (needed experience) and I've come to the conclusion…there are good, average and bad barrels. I think some manufacturers processes can produce more good ones say per hundred than the other but todays technology there just aren't many bad barrels.

I used to shoot benchrest (300-600y clays) and in I don't know how many barrels I've only had one bad one…it was a Krieger and I'd buy another one tomorrow.

There are differences in the process but the target don't lie. A lot of short range guys use both barrel types and without zero doubt, those guys are shooting the most accurate stuff in the world…if there was an advantage, they'd all be shooting that barrel and rifling type.

Saying all of that, I ordered 3 Brux's yesterday but I've also ordered Carbon Six within the last month too

Love my Brux, Bartlein, and my cold hammer forged Steyr. I'd buy all of them again. Don't own any button rifled barrels unless its in 22 LR.