Rifle Bedding Question
- Thread starter Rhunter2
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
If I were you I'd call them tomorrow and get them to send you 10 rounds of the exact same ammo they shot through it and take it to the gunsmith or someone else you trust and let them set it up with their own preferred scope and shoot it with the MRC ammo.
I had a rifle suddenly start doing something similar to what you describe so I immediately checked to make sure everything was still tight and sure enough I hadn't torqued down the mounting nuts after switching scopes. I'm very lucky that didn't end up with me busting a scope. Having one rattling around just a little bit loose subjects it to shock that is unreal.
I still would not completely discount something being wrong with your scopes, I've seen stranger things than having two different scopes with the exact same problem.
Buttermilk
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like they should have shot a 6 shot group, not a 3 shot group....
Perhaps then they would have seen your issue.
Perhaps then they would have seen your issue.
The more I think about the action bolt issue the more irritated I get. I will call them on Monday. However, what gunsmith would angle two action bolts in order for them to start and not see an issue there? I know they had the bolts out because I had them replaced with the Allen wrench heads rather than a flat head. Bolts will not go in without angling them to get them started. It costs me $50 every time to ship it not to mention deer season is here.
So I wanted to get some feedback on my conversations so far with MRC. I just got this response:
I showed this to our gunsmiths and management.
Since the barreled action was taken out, there is no way determine how it was re-installed. If it was that way when our CEO shot it – there's no way he could get half inch groups.
One thing to check is, when you re-installed the barreled action, did you press the whole action down uniformly into the stock. Meaning, not pressing one end in first then the other end. Gunsmith just now showed me he can reproduce that hole misalignment by doing that with a X2 he's building.
I have included the pictures that I sent them showing that the action bolt holes are so far forward in the pillars that the bolts are rubbing on the pillars when installed. You can actually see the thread marks on the pillars. So my question is this, on a rifle that has been properly pillar/glass bedded should you have to carefully arrange the action so that it lines up with the pillars? I thought that was a big part of bedding the gun so the action is stress free as well as always in contact with the stock in exactly the same fashion. I will point out on the pictures that the action holes need to come back in the stock in order for the holes to align with the pillars. You can see from the picture of the tang that the action will not slide back and also I would guess that the back of the recoil lug is touching the bedding as well as it should, meaning there is no way to slide the action back and center it on the pillars. Also, the target that was sent back from MRC with the gun shows one group of 3 that measures 7/8". I am quickly losing my faith in the company. Wouldn't it be easier for them to say something was not done right and fix it, ie new stock???
I showed this to our gunsmiths and management.
Since the barreled action was taken out, there is no way determine how it was re-installed. If it was that way when our CEO shot it – there's no way he could get half inch groups.
One thing to check is, when you re-installed the barreled action, did you press the whole action down uniformly into the stock. Meaning, not pressing one end in first then the other end. Gunsmith just now showed me he can reproduce that hole misalignment by doing that with a X2 he's building.
I have included the pictures that I sent them showing that the action bolt holes are so far forward in the pillars that the bolts are rubbing on the pillars when installed. You can actually see the thread marks on the pillars. So my question is this, on a rifle that has been properly pillar/glass bedded should you have to carefully arrange the action so that it lines up with the pillars? I thought that was a big part of bedding the gun so the action is stress free as well as always in contact with the stock in exactly the same fashion. I will point out on the pictures that the action holes need to come back in the stock in order for the holes to align with the pillars. You can see from the picture of the tang that the action will not slide back and also I would guess that the back of the recoil lug is touching the bedding as well as it should, meaning there is no way to slide the action back and center it on the pillars. Also, the target that was sent back from MRC with the gun shows one group of 3 that measures 7/8". I am quickly losing my faith in the company. Wouldn't it be easier for them to say something was not done right and fix it, ie new stock???
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alcesgigas
Well-Known Member
I feel bad for you, I know it doesn't help, but I'm sure most readers of this thread feel the same. So why not try something different?
I've made a practice of abandoning companies that don't back up what they sell; sometimes I've complained, sometimes went farther than that. Mostly it didn't work. In the past ten years or so I've taken to commend, in writing to appropriate outlets, good service from companies I've dealt with. I'm proud to name a few recent ones: Nielson-Kellerman (Kestrel), Leupold-Stevens, Wheeler Engineering (tools & bore sights), many if not all small mom & pop businesses that sell a specialized product like 21st Century Reloading, some I can't remember. My point is this: they'll even go so far as to be aggressively seeking to please the customer. I am truly sorry for missing so many that go this far, but they know who they are, what they do, and can look proudly in the mirror in the morning...
If MRC wants to stay in business they need to develop a customer-oriented service policy similar to those previously mentioned. And here's the different approach (sure took me awhile to get here huh?): Send them this thread and let them see what poor PR they've reaped. We are all here focusing on long range something and we've joined together to share experiences to better our craft. We can also use the power of public opinion as well as our united interests to obtain a favorable outcome for members slighted... We all hope that MRC--and others--elect to use their better senses, see the big picture, and their own bottom-line and do the right thing by the very people that make them possible.
Forget the stock, barrel, scope, et al., they should send you a new rifle!
I've made a practice of abandoning companies that don't back up what they sell; sometimes I've complained, sometimes went farther than that. Mostly it didn't work. In the past ten years or so I've taken to commend, in writing to appropriate outlets, good service from companies I've dealt with. I'm proud to name a few recent ones: Nielson-Kellerman (Kestrel), Leupold-Stevens, Wheeler Engineering (tools & bore sights), many if not all small mom & pop businesses that sell a specialized product like 21st Century Reloading, some I can't remember. My point is this: they'll even go so far as to be aggressively seeking to please the customer. I am truly sorry for missing so many that go this far, but they know who they are, what they do, and can look proudly in the mirror in the morning...
If MRC wants to stay in business they need to develop a customer-oriented service policy similar to those previously mentioned. And here's the different approach (sure took me awhile to get here huh?): Send them this thread and let them see what poor PR they've reaped. We are all here focusing on long range something and we've joined together to share experiences to better our craft. We can also use the power of public opinion as well as our united interests to obtain a favorable outcome for members slighted... We all hope that MRC--and others--elect to use their better senses, see the big picture, and their own bottom-line and do the right thing by the very people that make them possible.
Forget the stock, barrel, scope, et al., they should send you a new rifle!
WildRose
Well-Known Member
It certainly appears that the pillars are not properly aligned with the holes drilled in the bottom metal.
It seems you have but two choices to correct it. One would be to replace the bottom metal and the other would be to drill out the bolt holes in the pillars to allow for proper clearance.
To figure out for sure where the problem is You can flip it over, remove the screws, remove the bottom metal and then replace the screws to see if they are centered in the holes.
If they are, then the problem is with the bottom metal, if they aren't the problem is in the bedding itself.
You could I suppose get some all thread or just long bolts with the same thread and put them in with the bottom metal in place and see if they appear to be centered properly in the holes in the bottom metal.
Either way the same solution applies.
It seems you have but two choices to correct it. One would be to replace the bottom metal and the other would be to drill out the bolt holes in the pillars to allow for proper clearance.
To figure out for sure where the problem is You can flip it over, remove the screws, remove the bottom metal and then replace the screws to see if they are centered in the holes.
If they are, then the problem is with the bottom metal, if they aren't the problem is in the bedding itself.
You could I suppose get some all thread or just long bolts with the same thread and put them in with the bottom metal in place and see if they appear to be centered properly in the holes in the bottom metal.
Either way the same solution applies.
I am a bit torn on how I want to proceed. My first thought is like you said, drill the holes a bit. However, that doesn't fix the fact that the bolts are slightly angled in the hole meaning rather than pulling the action straight down they pull it down and back. It is not by much but does that slightly bind anything? The best fix is moving the entire action back so it aligns with the holes and that would also take the lean out the of the action screws. Then I would have to change inletting and have it rebedded. I could drill the pillars and move the bottom metal forward but that would leave a nasty gap on the bottom. In speaking again with mrc repeatedly, they said I could pay to send it back in but they were very shaky on what would happen with the gun, as in charging me to ship it back and possibly charging me to fix it. If I could press reset on this whole deal I would have just saved longer and bought a cooper.
ShtrRdy
Well-Known Member
If the angle of the screws is very slight and the gun shoots good I would be inclined to leave it alone. It sounds like the screws are angled so that the recoil lug is getting pulled back so that is good.
There have been actions built using 1 screw at a 45' angle pulling DOWN and BACK so I would shoot it and see.
I had a Savage I hung a 34" bull tube on that stripped the front screw. I TIG'd a 1/4-28 stud onto the action and shot it for 5k more rounds all under .5 MOA and many 10 shot groups under .25 MOA at 1k.
The end result desired is ACCURACY, how you get there is a variable path. I would GUESS that most factory actions aren't EXACTLY 90' anyway.
I had a Savage I hung a 34" bull tube on that stripped the front screw. I TIG'd a 1/4-28 stud onto the action and shot it for 5k more rounds all under .5 MOA and many 10 shot groups under .25 MOA at 1k.
The end result desired is ACCURACY, how you get there is a variable path. I would GUESS that most factory actions aren't EXACTLY 90' anyway.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
They may or may not be angled. You'll have to pull them and put some all thread or long bolts in and see how well they center in the trigger guard screw holes to tell.
No it's not perfect but few things made by human hands are. If it shoots well I wouldn't worry about it although I'd probably enlarge the screw holes through the pillars if it were me.
You should cut and paste the link to this thread and email it to them once you make your mind up for sure which way you are going to go. This really does sound out of character for them as usually they have a reputation for good customer service. This time around however they seem to be failing badly at it.
Joefrazell
Well-Known Member
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Is that a hs presicion stock? Either way your barrel should not have any bedding touching it anywhere! I'd hog all it out and bed the whole action and the recoil lug and then dremel away the area that will be touchung the barrel. Some people bed the first inch or so of the barrel and this isn't recommended. Especially if you don't want to string shots as the barrel warms. Also, contrary to popular believe, don't tape the recoil lug anywhere while bedding! I've been told by a very good smith that if it doesn't take you a while to get the gun apart after screws are removed its not bedded right! It should take some work, which means the stock and gun are tight. What size groups are you getting?
The stock is an mrc x2 stock. I just took a rat tail file and enlarged the pillar holes so the bolts don't touch and the issue was solved.
