Rifle Bedding Question

[sable tireur]

Rhunter2,

I paid significantly less for the rifle than retail.

Therein may lay the problem.

MRC makes their own actions and barrels. The barrels are pull button. The stresses built up in the barrel may be providing the 2-group groups we're being shown.

I have used several of their actions and had to make some improvements in them but all in all they were pretty good. The barrels on the other hand were not up to my needs.

I am also of the opinion that a really accurate rifle will shoot most ammo pretty good.

That's a fair statement for the most part. There is a reason it is 'really' accurate. Someone has taken the time to build the rifle accurately and has chosen parts that known to be the best quality. This may not be the case with MRC.

I do reload but have not reloaded for this gun yet.

Premium ammunition other than what you've already shot usually will not cure the 2-group groups. The problem is in the stock and/or the barrel.

They claim reloads void the warranty. I want to keep that in place until I know I have a shooter.

And just how are they going to know you shot reloads? They can claim all they want but it will not hold water because we all know that for most part reloads are more accurate than factory.

I am shooting from a sled.

This would not be my first, second or third choice. But if you think that this is an O.K. technique, have at it.

You can get a relatively reasonably priced front rest from Grizzly.com or Bullets.com, same company/owner, different locations. Then get a decent quality rear bag and go to town on testing. In this manner, the rifle is part of the actual system under which it will be shot in the field. The sled constrains the rifle and its ability to move under recoil while you the shooter is holding it.

Try the new loads but be prepared to send the rifle back. Do not settle for less than you expect from a decent rifle. It will not be a benchrest rifle but it should shoot better groups more accurate than what we're seeing.

I would insist on a perfect bedding job. What they sent you is not! Failing this, they better come up with another solution which works.

My guess is that it's the stock flexing in combination with a non-stress relieved button barrel.

Regards.

 

[horsefor4]

I find all this interesting I have one that shoots lights out it is a 7wsm I did stock it myself it is the only custom gun I own that you can walk in to any sporting good buy any box of shells it would no worse than 5/8 reloads 1/2 or better barrel very easy to clean.

 

[Rhunter2]

I took the gun out tonight with a different type of ammo. It was Nosler trophy 168 grain accubonds long range. They shot worse than the Hornady. I shot three, three shot groups letting the barrel cool in between groups. If you look at all 9 shots together it is almost a 2.5" group. I am sending it in for an evaluation by the company.

 

[WildRose]

It is a Montana rifle company 1999 action which is supposed to be modeled after a Winchester I believe.

That is a really great action. It is modeled after the M70 but the 99 is even beefier.

As long as your barrel is free floated I'd torque it down and shoot it and see how you like it.

The most important thing is to ensure it's free floated and the action/trigger guard screws are torqued evenly. I don't know what MRC recommends but I generally torque mine to 30 in/lbs.

If I were redoing it the one thing I might do different is to bed further in front of the recoil lug. As a rule of thumb I take a shell that fits that action and measure from the lug the length of an empty shell forward. This removes any possible stress on the threads of the action and barrel.

In the US most folks bed only to the front recoil lug and free from it forward but most of the Europeans and Aussies/NZ's I know do bed forward of the lug.

To me it seems to not only to eliminate any possible stress where the barrel and action meet it also reduces the amplitude of the barrel harmonics which makes it easier to find a load that works.

 

[WildRose]

Barrel is free floated. It is a Montana rifle company x2. It is supposed to have about everything done to it at the factory that you would do on a custom. That is why I am not super pleased with the grouping. Depending on what the company tells me' I may just send it to Douglas and have a barrel installed. I think the bedding needs to go and be rebedded. I am going to try some different shells and buy the dies for some hand loads. My experience with Hornady ammo in all my rifles has been excellent. Hornady is all that I have shot so far. Both sst and eldx.

Your group looks a whole lot more to me like either something is loose, scope is busted or there's a driver error.

Where I've seen bedding be an issue either there really isn't a definable group or you see a rise/drop at an angle left or right of the bull.

I would most certainly send it back to MRC and have them shoot it and give you an opinion rather than just sending it off to be rebarrelled because I sorely doubt it's a barrel problem.

 

[Rhunter2]

Every thing was tightened with a torque wrench and medium loctite on the bases. I also used two different scopes that both work on other rifles. Could be operator error but I don't have an issue getting good accuracy out of my other rifles. I have to wonder if the two groups were a fluke. It happened twice. However, the last couple of times I shot it, there was no grouping. It was a circle about the size of a tennis ball. I got the return info yesterday from the company and hope to ship it today.

 

[ShootnMathews]

The bedding doesn't look ideal to me but I don't think is bad enough to cause two groups. To me it's either something to do with the lead sled not having the same amount of pressure on the stock each shot like on your shoulder or the barrel touching the stock. On your shoulder you can feel if you have the same amount of pressure on the stock for each shot. On the sled if it's not seated in there the exact same and the bags in the exact same position every time it can change harmonics. Now if the stock is too flimsy and there is not enough free float room those changes in harmonics can cause the barrel to touch the stock on some shots and not others, causing two groups.

1.Lose the sled and use your shoulder. Use front and rear bags or some kind of solid mechanical front rest that will allow the stock to move freely and a rear bag.
2. Grip the end of the forearm and barrel and squeeze. If you can make the stock touch the barrel on either a side or the bottom then there is not enough float room for the stiffness of the stock.

People say Tupperware flimsy stocks won't ever shoot well and that's Bologna. I have several on budget guns that are as flimsy as they come, BUT I have bedded the receiver area so it does not flex AND sanded out the forearms to almost 1/8" of float clearance so that no matter what it will not flex into the barrel. And they shoot 1/4 to 1/2 moa.

 

[Rhunter2]

Gun has been sent in for an evaluation. I will post the results.

 

[Rhunter2]

I got the gun back from the factory saying they shot it and nothing was wrong. Sent a target with it showing a three shot group just under an inch. I grabbed a few rifles and headed to the range with some different shells for the 7mm. Shot the gun at 200 yards. Still does the exact same thing. Two separate groups that are an inch or so apart vertically. If it is form, breathing, or rest issue it doesn't carry over to my other two high powers because they both grouped just over an inch with the same set up. Very dissapointed at this stage with the rifle. Contemplating taking the gun to a smith and have it looked at. Not excited about throwing more cash at the gun. I have spent over $300 on different shells, rings, and bases. I honestly thought at a minimum the company would look at the bedding job and Rebed it.

 

[WildRose]

I got the gun back from the factory saying they shot it and nothing was wrong. Sent a target with it showing a three shot group just under an inch. I grabbed a few rifles and headed to the range with some different shells for the 7mm. Shot the gun at 200 yards. Still does the exact same thing. Two separate groups that are an inch or so apart vertically. If it is form, breathing, or rest issue it doesn't carry over to my other two high powers because they both grouped just over an inch with the same set up. Very dissapointed at this stage with the rifle. Contemplating taking the gun to a smith and have it looked at. Not excited about throwing more cash at the gun. I have spent over $300 on different shells, rings, and bases. I honestly thought at a minimum the company would look at the bedding job and Rebed it.

Call them and ask them just exactly what ammo they are using, buy some and take it all either to a smith or someone you can trust and let them shoot it and see what results they come up with.

I hate to say it but it sounds like the same kind of BS runaround I got from them for five years with what eventually proved out to be a 700bdl 7mm Rem that had so many things wrong with the original machining from Remington it belonged in a scrap heap.

 

[Rhunter2]

I am going to get the load information. I called a very reputable gunsmith today to see about having him take a look. He gave me a couple of things to try before bringing it in. He said to make sure the action bolts didn't touch anything, that the action should fall out of the stock(if it catches there is a bind), and he wanted me to add upward pressure to the barrel. Even without the load info I have shot Hornady, Nosler, and Barnes. All three had the same shooting characteristics as in two separate groups.

 

[coderlee]

this is sad to hear about MRC. I have a 35 whelen of theirs, it is an older one but it is a shooter. i have made many deferent loads and it loves everything. was hard to pick a bullet because they seem to all shoot great. i had big plans to buy a 300 wm of theirs, now you have me second guessing myself.

 

[Rhunter2]

Just looked closer at the action bolts. It looks to me that they would be touching the pillars towards the muzzle end of the gun. Can't really get a good picture but the bolt hole on the action is all the way at the front of the pillar hole. To the point where you have to slightly angle the bolts to put them in. Looks like the pillars should have been put in a 1/16" further forward. Can you just drill the pillars out slightly?

 

[WildRose]

Just looked closer at the action bolts. It looks to me that they would be touching the pillars towards the muzzle end of the gun. Can't really get a good picture but the bolt hole on the action is all the way at the front of the pillar hole. To the point where you have to slightly angle the bolts to put them in. Looks like the pillars should have been put in a 1/16" further forward. Can you just drill the pillars out slightly?

Yes you can. Not the ideal solution but there's no reason it shouldn't work.

Did the have your same scope and everything on the rifle when they shot it?