Resizing, before or after annealing

[milboltnut]

well the first but I like,....this idea.

anneal, Fire, anneal, size... I like the idea of annealing before firing. But aren't you too old to care ?

 

[1mechanic]

I like to fire, polish, anneal then size.

 

[lancetkenyon]

lancetkenyon, which do you think work hardens the brass more firing the cartridge or sizing the case?

I would think FL sizing.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I anneal every firing.
But, here is where I differ from almost everyone else in this thread...I anneal AFTER FL sizing. But again, I anneal EVERY firing. So the amount of work hardening is minimal compared to a person who does not anneal every time.

Let's assume on a piece of fired brass.
Here is my process:
Quick tumble in walnut
FL size and deprime
Tumble clean in walnut
Trim/chamfer/deburr w. 3-way trimmer (if needed)
Anneal
Mandrel
Prime
Load
Shoot
Repeat

Hmmmmm, I've never thought of this before. I suppose FLS before annealing, you remove the work hardening when you anneal after the sizing process.

May have to rethink and try a different method.

Lance do you believe there is any value to annealing just prior to bullet seating or is the mandrel sizing minimal effect on the neck? I mandrel size as well is the reason I'm pondering now.

 

[2Old2Care]

I like to fire, polish, anneal then size.

Thanks!

 

[2Old2Care]

well the first but I like,....this idea.

anneal, Fire, anneal, size... I like the idea of annealing before firing. But aren't you too old to care ?

Just what my wife thinks, not about all things shooting!

 

[milboltnut]

you're not alone bro !

 

[ButterBean]

Hmmmmm, I've never thought of this before. I suppose FLS before annealing, you remove the work hardening when you anneal after the sizing process.

May have to rethink and try a different method.

Lance do you believe there is any value to annealing just prior to bullet seating or is the mandrel sizing minimal effect on the neck? I mandrel size as well is the reason I'm pondering now.

Mike Lances method will work just fine but what it boils down to is what we all know already, No matter what you are doing Just do the same thing every time

 

[lancetkenyon]

Hmmmmm, I've never thought of this before. I suppose FLS before annealing, you remove the work hardening when you anneal after the sizing process.

May have to rethink and try a different method.

Lance do you believe there is any value to annealing just prior to bullet seating or is the mandrel sizing minimal effect on the neck? I mandrel size as well is the reason I'm pondering now.

The expanding mandrel is such a small amount of work to the brass.
So annealing after FL sizing, in my opinion, gives truer soft necks. Very little brass work after the annealing process. So good consistent neck tension.

Just my process.

And again, I anneal every firing. So even though I am FL sizing before I anneal, it is realistically only 3 steps after annealing (fire, tumble, FL size), but bullet seating is 1 step after annealing. Less than someone who anneals every other, or every third firing.
Annealing before FL sizing is 3 steps before bullet seating. Anneal, FL size, tumble, mandrel, seat bullet.

I think as long as you anneal every firing, the order is less important. But I do think annealing every firing is important for consistent loads. Leave out any step, and things change each firing.

 

[spladi]

There's been a lot of posting on annealing. Now do you anneal before or after you resize? And what effect does it have on whether your brass is dead soft or not?

When we consider our reasoning for annealing, excluding the donut producing effect of a neck bushing or maybe we should, I would try it both ways and see for yourself.

 

[jarnold37]

Not in the case of trimming or turning as you said before.... ooops I was there before butterbean ! LOL just a reminder, without a commentary.

Good point........ obviously others do it with success. I think it's a crackerjack of an idea to do it after sizing to fire form. Due to the fact that it may take a few times fitting brass to the chamber. Metal and other things take a bit more of persuasion. If you anneal, it's probably a good idea to find out how to do before you do it.

It's so easy to hikjack a thread..... sorry 1Mechanic

It was stated that the softer the brass is, the more it will flow. I tend to think that soft brass is elastic and springs back, returning to size, not flowing bigger. Hard brass is less elastic and has become more brittle. Harder brass will stretch length more when resizing due to the button being pulled through the neck and the neck not able to stretch and return, non elastic. Stretch it out and it remains. Realize that any working of the brass work hardens it. Even one firing and resizing changes the characteristic of the softness, hardness of the brass. Steel gets more flexible when worked. It needs to be brought to a glowing red before quenching and hardening. Brass is just the opposite. It also needs to be glowing and quenched to soften, or to regain its elasticity. The softer brass will actually more closely "return" to its original size before "stretched." The harder brass will be stretched and will not have elasticity and will not return to original size. That is why brass becomes harder and harder to extract after several workings in many instances. I have annealed 1000's of pieces of brass and learned by trial and error that if glowing and quenched the brass will regain its elasticity' and I have never seen or experienced any piece of brass "over annealed". Have experimented with brass at temperatures recommended by some, and a button would still squeal with pulled up through necks. Glowing in a dark room and quenched leaves the brass elastic and no squeal. Have shot my best groups with new brass and brass just annealed.

 

[1mechanic]

I'll agree with most of what you say but some steel is designed to be cold work hardened. The teeth on a backhoe bucket will work harden with use. Brass work hardens pretty quickly. I'm not an F-class shooter so annealing just once before I size and seat is good enough for me.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Mike Lances method will work just fine but what it boils down to is what we all know already, No matter what you are doing Just do the same thing every time

Understood Bean. I can see some merit to annealing after resizing though.

 

[1mechanic]

If your fire forming definitely.