Repeaters VS Single shot

[ATH]

I have shot 1000 yard Benchrest for 14 years. I can fire and aim 10 shots in 30 seconds I heavy gun and 10 shots in less then a minute in light gun. Our fastest guys have been timed 10 shots in 13 seconds. I can't see how you can do it any faster with a magazine. It would take time to change magazines and you have to bolt the gun every shot. I have also been around 100 yard benchrest and observed what they shoot. Typically they will average around a .1 to .2 group aggregate on good days. These are PPC's which is the most accurate cartridge ever shot. They use 66 to 68 grain bullets and tune regularly. These are special built benchrest rigs with short heavy barrels. Some of then can shoot their 5 shots in 10 seconds or less. What you shoot at 100 yards it doesn't always hold out to 1000. The world record for 10 shots in light gun is 2.6 something and for Heavy is 2.815 inches. These are the only two 10 shot groups in the country ever fired under 3 inches. Again fired with Benchrest guns specially built for accuracy. I put my shots on paper where they are officially measured so it is no bull. I have had guns that shot .200 and less at 100 yards and would not shoot smaller then 12 inches at 1000. What works at 100 doesn't always shoot at 1000. Like I said these are special built guns with straight stocks so they track when shot off the rests. I would like to see that repeater in a hunting gun and hunting cartridge that will consistently outshoot the best guns in the country. These are just the facts. Matt

#1: Of all the topics to come up here, this one surprised me that it got people at each other's throats. I really don't understand why there are such strong feelings about this.

#2: I don't get all of the comparisons to benchrest. Benchrest guns are purpose-built to be able to shoot fast with minimal distruption with target alignment during recoil. People making such comparisons are either being disingenuous, or don't hunt and shouldn't be commenting on what happens during hunting situations. Shooting off a Harris bipod with no rear bag and trying to reload, and get back on target, are entirely different than the BR game. And does benchrest typically shoot high recoil .30cal and .338cal rifles?

I've hunted using the mag and single loading. Single loading is usually not awful. But I don't own a mag rifle that shoots so terribly that I would want to restrict myself to a single shot either. Espically around bitey scratchy critters.

 

[ohiohunter]

Browse the classifieds.....

 

[dkhunt14]

#1: Of all the topics to come up here, this one surprised me that it got people at each other's throats. I really don't understand why there are such strong feelings about this.

#2: I don't get all of the comparisons to benchrest. Benchrest guns are purpose-built to be able to shoot fast with minimal distruption with target alignment during recoil. People making such comparisons are either being disingenuous, or don't hunt and shouldn't be commenting on what happens during hunting situations. Shooting off a Harris bipod with no rear bag and trying to reload, and get back on target, are entirely different than the BR game. And does benchrest typically shoot high recoil .30cal and .338cal rifles?

I've hunted using the mag and single loading. Single loading is usually not awful. But I don't own a mag rifle that shoots so terribly that I would want to restrict myself to a single shot either. Espically around bitey scratchy critters.

The question the OP asked was what is better for accuracy. I only used the bench rest for a comparison. I do hunt long and we shoot off benches with a chain drive for elevation. Some of the places we hunt your closest shot is around 1200 yards. We sit and watch a mile of mountain or maybe 2 or 3 mountains. I build my guns for the accuracy. Go look at the pictures of my gun on this forum page 2. It is under pictures of my hunting rig. We sit at the same place all day and glass, we set up stoves and cook and we do ok. I am not the one that said a hunting gun would shoot twos. I just made of point of how the most accurate guns shoot. I didn't get rude or offensive I just told the truth by stating facts. I answered what the original poster asked. Matt

 

[ATH]

The question the OP asked was what is better for accuracy. I only used the bench rest for a comparison. I do hunt long and we shoot off benches with a chain drive for elevation.

You describe a hunting setup not applicable to 99.99% of hunters. Therefore, it bears little bearing on real-life hunting situations.

I'm sure 30 pound, single-shot bench guns are the most accurate there are. I'm sure when you sit in one spot with a special-built artillery table to shoot off, there is a connection. But those conditions apply to almost zero hunters, even in the LR game. I've read a lot of hunting reports hear and I've yet to read one who shot off such a setup. I am sure there are a few of you out there but to generalize and claim such conditions to apply more broadly would be very disingenuous.

If it works for you, more power to you. It would be fun to watch. I just find the vitriole against those in this thread who have a role for repeaters disappointing.

And what I said about the bad vibe in the tread was not specifically directed at you, but at several and the general tone of the thread. We can do better, this hardly seems an issue worth riling people over.

Most of my LR hunting shots have been done in an area that takes three hours to hike to on foot and we're about the only people going in that far without horses. Thick with bears. Plenty of places to shoot game where you want a second one in them as quickly as possible to make sure they don't get somewhere much more difficult to retrieve. No chain-driven table is going to make it in there, and .1-.2 MOA difference in group size is a small price to pay if that is what it takes to have more than one round in the rifle.

 

[sp6x6]

Heres a genralization.Ive hunted NWest, AK,and abroad I never saw a single shot.

 

[ohiohunter]

I have had a few guns in my day customs and factory both single shot and repeaters. Here is what I just can't understand. If your going to build a gun for long range and maximum accuracy wouldn't you want the action to be as stiff as possible? I am talking about LR and ELR stuff. Your shooting at game a long way off and if you practice to any degree a single shot reload is only a touch slower than picking one up out of a magazine. So why limit your seating depth and possibly some accuracy by building a repeater VS a single shot? gun)

The question the OP asked was what is better for accuracy. I only used the bench rest for a comparison. I do hunt long and we shoot off benches with a chain drive for elevation. Some of the places we hunt your closest shot is around 1200 yards. We sit and watch a mile of mountain or maybe 2 or 3 mountains. I build my guns for the accuracy. Go look at the pictures of my gun on this forum page 2. It is under pictures of my hunting rig. We sit at the same place all day and glass, we set up stoves and cook and we do ok. I am not the one that said a hunting gun would shoot twos. I just made of point of how the most accurate guns shoot. I didn't get rude or offensive I just told the truth by stating facts. I answered what the original poster asked. Matt

You are correct. A solid single shot is more accurate, but the op also added why limit yourself w/ a repeater; yet not all repeaters limit seating depth. So to me this is a bit of a loaded question, if you've never been limited there is no problem. Those who have been limited would in fact be better off with a single shot, but how would you know prior to load development? Unless it is a know long cartridge vs action. Either way it is a very very subjective question, again with too many variables to truly account for.

 

[dkhunt14]

Here in the East most of the guys that longrange hunt use benches. They use heavy 1.450 diameter barrel that are 36 and longer and the barrel is glued in a barrel block. There are literally thousands of them. Our mountains go straight up and straight down. Some places there are 5 or 6 mountains in a mile or so. Most of these mountains are in state forests and they have roads on all of them. The roads were built for fire towers and equipment to get around. You can go to places like the Pa grand canyon and see maybe 8 to 10 different gangs set up to shoot across, in a very short stretch. It is hard sometimes even getting a spot. Yes the hunting is different but the OP asked what is better for EXTREME accuracy. This is pretty much the way the East longrange hunts from the south to the North. You have to remember a few years ago we had 1.5 million hunters in PA. These guys have been hunting that way since the 1950's. Matt

 

[dragman]

You are correct. A solid single shot is more accurate, but the op also added why limit yourself w/ a repeater; yet not all repeaters limit seating depth. So to me this is a bit of a loaded question, if you've never been limited there is no problem. Those who have been limited would in fact be better off with a single shot, but how would you know prior to load development? Unless it is a know long cartridge vs action. Either way it is a very very subjective question, again with too many variables to truly account for.

You are correct I said why limit yourself. Seating depth isn't the only limiting factor. If for long range the stiffer single shot action is more accurate than the repeater wouldn't you think they would be the norm? Even if its only slightly better I see zero benefit to the repeater yet they are the norm.

 

[Greyfox]

I have both single shot and repeaters. My LR hunting rifles are repeaters. I wouldn't die on any hill arguing one over the other but my preference is for a repeater when hunting. Unless I'm splitting hairs at BR competition, I don't worry about action stiffness for hunting purposes. Even with a well placed shot, an animal can get up and travel a good distance. I make it a habit to stay in the animal and chamber another round instantly to make sure it stays put. Particularly in coyote country and late in the day. IMO.

 

[MMERSS]

FWIW,

Using AB Analytics WEZ, I calculated the shot percentage difference of a 300 RUM shooting with an estimated 1 MPH crosswind uncertainty on a 10" square target at 1000m. The shot percentage difference between a .4MOA and a .2 MOA precision potential shooter/rifle/gun combination was 1%.

The difference between estimated shot percentage first round hit with a 1 MPH crosswind uncertainty compared to a .75 MPH crosswind uncertainty was 13%.

What does this tell me?For LR shots there is smaller margin of percentage gain by slightly increasing MOA potential. Increasing shot percentage is better gained with skills in accuracy rather than solely focused on precision. Both are important, one is more important.

Again, talk is surrounded by how sexy one can be or should be. Nothing wrong with this. I like the sexiness of both single shot and repeater precision especially how sexy the look. However, I don't worry about my rifle being a repeater vs. single shot for hunting if I'm achieving .5 MOA or better potential. I'm more concerned with the wind as this is what will usually make or break my first round shot, not another .1 or .2 MOA.

Cold bore dirty bore first round shot, one of my hunting repeaters is more precise than any of my single shot target rifles…..although after three or four rounds the target rifles will paint better groups than my repeater. I tend to not advise target practicing on big game animals to warm up a target barrel.

 

[4bycamper]

FWIW,
Cold bore dirty bore first round shot, one of my hunting repeaters is more precise than any of my single shot target rifles…..although after three or four rounds the target rifles will paint better groups than my repeater. I tend to not advise target practicing on big game animals to warm up a target barrel.

+1
This is fine description of my 7 saum. 168 berger hybrid. Dirty bore, cold bore shot.
0.5 moa. But the bore must be cold to the touch. 2nd shot will be close. Third shot will be out of the 10 ring.
Thanks for a great description of a hunting rifle that will thread the money shot between the trees.

 

[MMERSS]

Below are the screen shots to accompany my above post.

The 230 Berger Hybrid with an average MV of 3150fps under estimated environmental conditions common to my hunting was used in the analysis.





As can be seen from the predicted WEZ analysis, MOA precision is really small potatoes compared to wind estimation and application of the potential uncertainties. I don't see a huge benefit with updating my .4 MOA precision capable repeater Remington action with a high $ single shot action potentially capable of .2 MOA precision. For long range target shooting absolutely, for hunting not necessary for my needs.

 

[ATH]

You are correct I said why limit yourself. Seating depth isn't the only limiting factor. If for long range the stiffer single shot action is more accurate than the repeater wouldn't you think they would be the norm? Even if its only slightly better I see zero benefit to the repeater yet they are the norm.

Because, obviously, others see benefits that you don't recognize or don't personally value. This thread is full of explanations.

As the accuracy vs wind example was explained, it is even questionable to claim that what small accuracy increase may be gained by using a single shot is insignificant under hunting circumstances, where wind is the primary limitation. Last I checked, once the bullet leaves the barrel the wind does not care which type of action it was launched from.

To stretch your argument, you could equally ask why people don't all hunt with 30 lb bench guns with bull barrels after all they are the most accurate. But like single shots, there are trade-offs to guns with such characteristics.

 

[dragman]

What do wind variables have to do with repeaters and single shots?
If we all agree that the single shot is more accurate (even if its just a little) then what benefit does a repeater gain?
That is the question