Remington 700 quality

[rebelfootball73]

i have been a remington fan since i was old enough to know about guns.with that said the newer factory guns dont hold a candel to the tikkas or even the new savages(never thought i would say id like a savage better then a remmy) but here is the thing. remmys have all kinda extras you can do to them where tikka wellits pretty much done as soon as you buy it

 

[Trickymissfit]

Mike, WOW, I read that whole link!!! And then we wonder why!! I too am a " Big Green " fan from way back, but that's just it, the older stuff is far and away better than the " off the shelf " stuff nowadays. I bought a new CDL last November, and was never so disgusted with a rifle as that one. It looked great, bit I just couldn't get it to shoot like I know it could. I had heard that CS sucked, so I traded it in, toward another used, but older Remington, that shoots like a lazer. ( go figure).
Bottom line is, the Remington that we grew up with is dead and gone. What exists today that calls itself " Remington" is just a store front.
Mike Walker must be rolling over I'm sure!!!! That man had a vision!!!!!!

I like Remington rifles, but not the newer stuff (last fifteen years). My only real complaint about them is their trigger / saftey and I wish the action was about .150" longer (short action). I also have said more than once I wish the bridge was a little longer, so the barrel thread could have a little more support. But in most cases I can live with it being on the short side. It would be nice if Remington sold a single shot bolt gun like some others do. With this in mind and anybody that knows me will tell you my favorite walking gun is a short action mod. 700 in .223. I've literally shot dozens of coyotes with it, and plan on handing it down to my new grandson in the future (along with two or three fly rods). Gotta set him up right from the start!! On the otherhand I don't think it's right for the average Joe to have to rebuild a rifle right out of the box.

Lets hope that Remington dosn't screw up the 541 series of rifles!
gary

 

[Mike 338]

i have been a remington fan since i was old enough to know about guns.with that said the newer factory guns dont hold a candel to the tikkas or even the new savages(never thought i would say id like a savage better then a remmy) but here is the thing. remmys have all kinda extras you can do to them where tikka wellits pretty much done as soon as you buy it

I'm with you.

Imagine buying a T.V. for a slightly lesser price that had such poor quality sound you had to replace the speakers, a remote were the buttons didn't work and a cord that was a fire hazard and needed to be replaced. You do all that but it still has an annoying humming sound so you send it back but the next one is just the same. Or... for an extra $100, you could buy one that you take out of the box, plug it in and watch it every night for the next 10 years without a 2nd thought of quality. Seems like an easy choice. It's so easy and logical, it's deceptive. Particularly if you pappy used to buy only RCA's.

 

[mrbigtexan]

i have a remington 700 bdl in 270 that was made in 1983, and the exact same gun that was made in 2008,they shoot my petload exactly the same (3/4''). the polish and blueing is alot nicer on the older 270. i dont care much for the trigger on the newer one. my dad bought a brand new 270 a month ago and it was shooting a 4'' group, after floating the barrel it only shoots 1.5''. I think the quality just keeps getting worse. i have a remington 798 in 243 that was made in serbia by zastava that is a tackdriver. It seems to me that they dropped the only thing that they had going for them.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I just had a conversation with a guy that bought a new 700 SPS in .308. I swear he told me he was shooting nine inch groups with it using factory 150 grain loads (Remington)!! My turkey gun might give it a run for group size. But to be fair he went with some better stuff and now is shooting in the mid four inch range. I don't think there's much wrong with the rifle itself, but think his rings and bases are rather suspect. Now the rifle was the first to blame here! But I'm betting it's a combo of the shooter and the scope installation. I gave him a check list of things to do, and they'll eat up the major part of the week for him; yet won't void the warranty. We all want to blame whole shebang when in the end we need to look in the mirror. Everybody makes a lemon from time to time. But you gain a lot of respect when you own up to it and fix the problem without the slightest wimper.
gary

 

[midmo]

Trickymissfit, would you keep us posted on if the list you gave him fixed those group sizes?

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit, would you keep us posted on if the list you gave him fixed those group sizes?

actually it was just simple stuff like checking the quality of the bedding and the recoil lug area, plus making sure there was clearence around the barrel, trigger housing, and bolt handle. Then I had him remove the scope and bases, and throw away the rings and bases (junk). I told him how to bed the bases with JP Weld and to buy a set of Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts. Plus he needed to get ahold of a good inch pound torque wrench that was knwn to be accurate in the 30 to 50 inch pound area. Really pretty easy stuff to spot. The scope he was using wasn't the greatest, but I doubt that itself was worth those group sizes. I just couldn't see it being that bad from the start, and probably just the scope mounts and a little retorquing the bedding screws properly. A lot of folks go head on into a panic without fiirst taking a serious look to see what's wrong. Often a simple fix. Have not heard what he found yet, but will let you know.
gary

 

[bornlucky]

i agree that any manufacturer can build a bad one now and then but a lot of it is how they deal with it if you have the misfortune to get a bad one. If it is a rem good luck! they could care less. i have dealt with marlin which is a company in the same group with rem but the response was 180 deg from rem. they care about customer service and will make it right as quick as possible. The rem mark pro is a very poorly designed trigger by any ones standards and the pro fire trigger in my 300 dollar marlin puts it to shame and although i have timney, bold, accutrigger etc. i feel rems response to a faulty trigger should have been a priority instead of telling me to just buy an aftermarket trigger.

 

[Sully2]

Im far from being a gunsmith and never claimed I was. But Im the first to say I dont see ANYTHING thats competing with Remington $ for $ and giving the results that Rem does.

With that said I easily see the differences from an SPS model to the BDL / CDL models...but there is a $450-500 price gap there too. I had an SPS...for a full day before I started cussing it and buying a new stock instead of that plastic *** they come with...and calling my smith to tell him to get me into the que to get it rebarreled. And I had never **** it to boot...but that black finish on the barrel was rubbing off and making my hands black like I had been handling old auto parts!

If they were so bad then why are 99% of the clones just that.... CLONES!!!
Im not afraid to say that I think some of their models wont even make good dog stakes to tie your coon hounds up with...but some of their rifles are pretty decent guns...so at least give credit where credit is due...and STOP BUYING the JUNK models....thats how you get ride of them.

Rem would be a lot better off with 6 different models in a total of 40 calibers than the other way around!

 

[Mike 338]

Im far from being a gunsmith and never claimed I was. But Im the first to say I dont see ANYTHING thats competing with Remington $ for $ and giving the results that Rem does.

With that said I easily see the differences from an SPS model to the BDL / CDL models...but there is a $450-500 price gap there too. I had an SPS...for a full day before I started cussing it and buying a new stock instead of that plastic *** they come with...and calling my smith to tell him to get me into the que to get it rebarreled. And I had never **** it to boot...but that black finish on the barrel was rubbing off and making my hands black like I had been handling old auto parts!

If they were so bad then why are 99% of the clones just that.... CLONES!!!
Im not afraid to say that I think some of their models wont even make good dog stakes to tie your coon hounds up with...but some of their rifles are pretty decent guns...so at least give credit where credit is due...and STOP BUYING the JUNK models....thats how you get ride of them.

Rem would be a lot better off with 6 different models in a total of 40 calibers than the other way around!

Indeed it's a good design which would greatly benefit from owners who wished to exploit that design to improve the product for a long term share of the market . Instead the design is being exploited to extract short term profits. You bought a gun you hate. You can't get that taste out of your mouth or the memory out of your head. More often than not, it gets fixed up and a year later, it's in someone else's gun safe. The reason they make junk is because by the time you realize how much your inexpensive Target Rifle cost you and avoid dealing with that company in the future, there will be two more people to take your place.

The good news is that now, even third world countries can read about how good or bad your rifle is. There's a hundred young people who haven't purchased their first rifle that are reading this right now. Eventually Remington will have to address their own survival rather than worrying about the next quarters statement. Virtually every major gun maker is investing in their future, improving their designs and providing the performance the public is demanding. Even if they did see the light, it might be to little to late. Let 'em rot if they don't like their customers.

 

[Sully2]

Indeed it's a good design which would greatly benefit from owners who wished to exploit that design to improve the product for a long term share of the market . Instead the design is being exploited to extract short term profits. You bought a gun you hate. You can't get that taste out of your mouth or the memory out of your head. More often than not, it gets fixed up and a year later, it's in someone else's gun safe. The reason they make junk is because by the time you realize how much your inexpensive Target Rifle cost you and avoid dealing with that company in the future, there will be two more people to take your place.

The good news is that now, even third world countries can read about how good or bad your rifle is. There's a hundred young people who haven't purchased their first rifle that are reading this right now. Eventually Remington will have to address their own survival rather than worrying about the next quarters statement. Virtually every major gun maker is investing in their future, improving their designs and providing the performance the public is demanding. Even if they did see the light, it might be to little to late. Let 'em rot if they don't like their customers.

Ive got ya...I understand. With me though I knew within about 30 minutes I had "done wrong" and should have spent more $$. Now I just buy various components from various sellers and send them to "my man" and he does the barrel work for me...etc.

If you are buying Remington.....dont buy one of the cheaper models...

 

[Trickymissfit]

In my own personal opinion the Remington Mod. 700 should have been redesigned about 2,000,000 units ago. It's far from perfect, and rest assured the shooting public in general know this. It has created a huge cottage industry all over the place, but now that same industry is moving elsewhere. Folks don't buy by brand name alligence anymore, but buy items that fit their needs with quality in mind.

3/4's of my life the desired hunting rifle was always a Winchester Mod. 70 (maybe even longer). Winchester cheapened their icon rifle back in the mid 1960's and paid dearly for it. Then later had to return with the older concept, but too late as the markets they had a lock on passed them by. Now we're watch the markets step away from Remington to take a better look. It's not too late yet, but I'd say they have less than 60 months or loose it all. Ruger has redesigned the 77 action at least once, and I think Savage has done three redesigns. Then we have a smaller player like Cooper sitting on the sidelines watching this. All they need to do is get their machining processes more efficient and they may become the next big hitter. They proved they can do this with their fabulous 22 rimfire rifles that are pretty much the equale of the highy thought of Anschutez when looking $2.5K or less (the Cooper is about $1100)

My brother owns several Remingtons,and some Ruger #1's, plus a bunch of Marlin lever guns. Every Remington has been rebuilt, and at least a couple of the Number Ones. All his rifles shoot well, but it also irks him to no end when an out of the box rifle of another brand flat smokes his rifles. Yet if you getting him cornered and make him confess as to what rifles he's owned shot the best; he'll tell you that the Howa's were the best shooters for him. (just about kills him to say this by the way)

So with Remington in mind here, how much longer is it going to be before somebody like FN or Howa decides to open a plant over here and design a better bolt gun than we can lay our hands on right now? If you think they have no interest; I have a bridge for sale! Personally, I'd like to see somebody like Steyer come over here and build a rifle.
gary

 

[Mike 338]

I'm digg'in you Sully. Spending more money will usually buy you better components but does not insure better tolerances. I have a heavy barreled, stainless fluted Rem in 220 Swift (cant remember what they called it), high end synthetic stock with a aluminum bedding block that, as I recall, was quite expensive at the time of purchase. I put an expensive (at the time), high powered Leopold on top. The gun shoots O.K. but not great. The trigger creeps a little and after quite a bit of load development, I finally found a recipe that works well (1/2 to 3/4 MOA) if I keep velocities down to 22-250 range. It doesn't shoot a wide range of ammo particularly well. Most any Tikka will out shoot it and even a Savage Axis will give it a run. My buddies old, stone stock Winchester 22-250 will out shoot it with most any ammo you feed it. When I bought this rifle, I was expecting to be impressed but such was not the case. Throwing money at a Remington purchase may help avoid a disaster but is still very much a roll of the dice, or so has been my experience.

 

[Mike 338]

Gary,

Your analysis reads right however your logical timeline may not account for the incestuous relationship between Freedom Group and the Gov. Like a once good co-worker who now shows up late if he shows up at all, who's work has slipped and makes everyone else's work look bad and has the audacity to keep asking for a raise, Remington has become long in the tooth. Remaining static is a state of decline.