Reloading suggestions for .338 Lapua

[barnesuser28]

Is the .054 the distance from the lands? Just making sure..
....Yes. That is correct. I used the Hornady LocknLoad OAL gauge and consistently measured 3.734" sitting on the lands. I believe I did it right, but I have been mistaken a time or two with reloading.

I have a couple questions regarding the OCW process with this rifle:

Do my plans for making the decreased and increased loads sound right for fine tuning the load?

Do I mess with head spacing yet, or wait until I finalized my powder charge?

Dan, please let me know how the break in/reloading process on that rifle goes. I have had groups like the ones above before with the 250gr SMK, but couldnt replicate them again for some unknown reason. I think it was because of that ***** hornady brass. Anyhow..I am a little frustrated that it took me this long to have a decent group with this rifle. I believe the problem lies with my limited knowledge of reloading more than anything else.



Would cleaning the barrel every 20 rounds be adequate for continuing the break in process? I have 100-150 rounds through it so far I believe. To be sure I get it clean, I usually run one patch of sweets 7.62 down the tube and clean it out well with several dry patches. I then run one patch with Hopps solvent, followed by several dry patches. It has always worked well with my other rifles, but I never had to clean them as often as this.

I ordered a neck turner and pilot from Midway and plan on trying to get my Hornady brass working again just in case I need some in a pinch. Dan, have you had to neck turn your lapua brass any yet? I only purchased 50 lapua brass, so I am fixing to be on reload number 3 with them. I assume I will need to reduce the neck wall thickness at some point so I wont eventually run into the same issue as with the Hornady brass. Do I assume correctly?

Has anyone neck sized the lapua brass after shooting it out of a Savage rifle? I tried it with mine, however the bolt was very stiff on every load so I went back to FL sizing. Went much smoother after FL sizing.

Just got finished clearing my 900 yard range today. First yellow target at 100 yards to your left, 200 yards to the right, 400 yards left, 600 right, 900 straight back. 1000 yards was at the base of the cliff and isn't visible. I ranged the top of the cliff to be 1045 yards. I guess I could always place a target on top of there, but the shot would have a little more elevation to it. I just gotta keep an eye out for the livestock in that pasture. LOL. Hopefully I can get yall some good data on this rifle and caliber at that distance. The only problem I found with my setup was that my DPMS LR-308 I shot today was passing clean through my steel target plates up to 400 yards away with SMK. Pic below is at 200 yards. I need to replace them with the harder steel made for taking rifle rounds. Anyone happen to know the name of that classification of metal?[QUOTE//]
I neck size only on Lapua brass fired in a Savage 338 Lapua rifle. It's all on its 3rd loading so i suspect i will need to bump the shoulder back on the next reload.

 

[sp6x6]

Most questions answered.The neck vrs. full,jsut keep track of fired size and bump shoulder .001-.002.In doing this if you have a factory supplied brass for Hornady gauge,it can be off easily .005-.010,because it is not fired in your chamber.So if you are setting close like .005 off, you could be jambed and not no it. I have 1/2 doz.Hornady brass gauges and all this way. I now use the Sinclair tool w/own fired brass.The k&m neck turner and expandian is nice unit.

 

[Texas Republic]

nice pics...

AR500 is the steel you want... it's about 800 bucks for a 4x8 sheet around here. But it'll take the 338LM at 400 yards and beyond. Some say 300... I wouldn't want to risk that.

I don't really like neck turning brass, but in the case of the Hornady, and the Savage's tight necked chamber, it wouldn't be a bad idea to knock a little off those necks. They are thick enough (speaking strictly for my 338, my friend's 338, and the Hornady brass we have worked with so far) that you can honestly seat another bullet in there and it'll hold it... with the Lapua, the bullets slip through the necks of fired cases easily, as they should.

You say work with the "headspace." You mean seating depth, I'm sure. I do seating depth adjustments after identifying the right powder charge through the OCW process. Once you know your powder charge, you can work the bullet in/out in .005" increments... and you will also find that you can tune your cold, clean bore shot to stay sub half MOA with follow up shots--if you use the right seating depth...

...and provided you don't clean too much. Check this video... this is a guy after my own heart I've got to say.

Magpul The Art of the Precision Rifle - Cold Bore vs. Clean bore - YouTube

Had I seen someone as authoritative as Todd say this way back when, I could have saved a lot of trouble and money cleaning the hades out of my barrels. I think Todd is right, and I'm encouraged to hear the round counts he is getting on his custom barrels. I'll go with a custom after this Savage barrel throws in the towel, but it shoots too darned good now to mess with it.

Good luck... I'll post info on my friend's new 338LM as it comes in. He's working with seating depth right now, having ID'd the powder charge already (same as the powder charge I use, it turns out... 89.3 grains Retumbo with the 300's)...

Dan

Excellent video Dan! That answered many of the questions I have had for many years. And it makes sense as well. Many people are astonished when I tell them I dont clean my LR-308 except once a year. When I do clean it, it takes a while for it to settle back down. Once it settles, I can get 1.55" inch groups at 600 yards. After cleaning, it wont even hit the plate.

M-PRO 7 is the carbon cleaning product he referred to right? I went to look at their webpage, and the "gun cleaner" solution which is probably the one he spoke of also cleans out copper fouling, not just the carbon. Website below. I understood him to say that ONLY the carbon build up should be regularly cleaned, not the copper fouling lining the barrel. Is this right?
http://www.lapolicegear.com/mpro-7-gun-care.html

So how does this "carbon cleaned" barrel theory effect a hot barrel's accuracy? Is he saying the heat of a barrel doesnt matter or has very minimal impact if the shooter does his job?

The accuracy of a hot barrel is very important to me. I use my rifles solely for hunting predators and wild game. Many times, there are several "targets" that need my attention, not just one. Shot number 1 is just as important as shot number 5 in many cases.

In other words, what can I do to ensure my 5th shot is just as accurate as my first....

 

[Homer Oz]

G'Day Fella's,

I have read thru most of the posts on this thread and I seen no mention of VihtaVuori Powders, to be used in the .338 Lapua cartridge.
Just wondering, what VihtaVuori powder is recommended for use with 250grain bullets, in a 26" barrel?

The reason I ask this, is that the VihtaVuori agency has changed in Australia and I can get this powder at a good (clearance) price, from the old agents!

Thank you for any recommendations.

Doh!
Homer

 

[green 788]

TR...

I haven't used that particular solvent... believe it or not, I've had great luck with Hoppes number 9, leaving it in the bore as a rust preventative and also to allow it to soften the major fouling over time.

I'm going to a small shoot tomorrow, and using my .243 Douglas barreled Remington 788... it's had some Hoppes 9 in the bore for a couple months now (haven't used the rifle in that length of time)... I'll patch that out with some fresh number 9, and it'll be greenish blue, showing leeched out copper which was gently removed.

This all said, there are lots and lots of ways of treating barrels, and folks get really passionate about their own methods and their reasoning. I was glad to see how Todd treated that matter in his video, saying if you feel like you need to get ALL the copper out, then get it out... but he points out you'll need fouling shots to restore POI in most cases.

As for the 5th shot... if it's hotter than hades outside like it was the other day when we were working with my shooting partner's new 338, I don't think you can do much other than plot the POI shift and allow for it. That barrel would be so hot after two shots you could barely touch it. After the 3rd shot... forget it.

But in the fall and winter, especially shooting non magnum cartridges, your strings will be a lot longer before accuracy falls off. When it does fall off, however, it generally will trend in the same direction each time the barrel gets hot... so you just have to consider the shift, and hold off before firing.

Dan

 

[Texas Republic]

TR...

I haven't used that particular solvent... believe it or not, I've had great luck with Hoppes number 9, leaving it in the bore as a rust preventative and also to allow it to soften the major fouling over time.

I'm going to a small shoot tomorrow, and using my .243 Douglas barreled Remington 788... it's had some Hoppes 9 in the bore for a couple months now (haven't used the rifle in that length of time)... I'll patch that out with some fresh number 9, and it'll be greenish blue, showing leeched out copper which was gently removed.

This all said, there are lots and lots of ways of treating barrels, and folks get really passionate about their own methods and their reasoning. I was glad to see how Todd treated that matter in his video, saying if you feel like you need to get ALL the copper out, then get it out... but he points out you'll need fouling shots to restore POI in most cases.

As for the 5th shot... if it's hotter than hades outside like it was the other day when we were working with my shooting partner's new 338, I don't think you can do much other than plot the POI shift and allow for it. That barrel would be so hot after two shots you could barely touch it. After the 3rd shot... forget it.

But in the fall and winter, especially shooting non magnum cartridges, your strings will be a lot longer before accuracy falls off. When it does fall off, however, it generally will trend in the same direction each time the barrel gets hot... so you just have to consider the shift, and hold off before firing.

Dan

I may stick with my initial powder charge of H1000 and fine tune the OAL. Or perhaps keep fine tuning the charge? When should i call it quits? Id be tickled pink if i can sqeeze that group down an inch or so. The pic below is at 600 yards. I am gonna have to go with paper targets though. The power of this round is amazing. The impact broke one of my welds and went clean through 3/8 inch steel at that range. My 308 hardly even dented the plate.

 

[Aldon]

TR, If you can consistently groups that tight at 600 yards, I do not know why you would not call it good. from the photo it looks like close to .25-.30 moa by my calculations. 3 shots vs 5 is debatable but 2 shot groups are tenuous at best.

I went out and confirmed my seating depth and accuracy node today with 90 gr of H1000. Longest range I have accessible is 300 yards. I shot several 3 shot groups at less than .75 moa. best was .630 moa. That group looks close to your 2 shot group at 600.

 

[Texas Republic]

I wish I could have shot more rounds at 600, but the second shot took down my target stand when it broke my weld! All I saw through the scope was the bullet hit and my stand crash to the ground. lol. All I could do is laugh at that point. So a third shot wasnt possible. Its pretty neat though seeing the round hit, but not hearing it until a second later.

I dont know the FPS they are moving at, so I just estimated. I need to borrow my friend's chrono. Then I just plug in my data to "iSnipe" and away we go. If any of you have an ipod or iphone, you definitely need that app. It inputs all the weather data to your location and all you gotta do is punch in a couple numbers. This gives you a custom ballistic table on the fly. I have all of my rifles programmed into it. It basically replaces the $500 hand held ballistic computers you buy instead. I always verify the wind speed though myself.

I have noticed that the bolt is somewhat stiff extracting. I wouldnt think my load is too hot at 87.7gr of H1000. I hope we arent going down the same road I did with Hornady brass.

 

[Aldon]

I had a couple of brass stick today and they were full length sized, and trimmed. But the PPU brass is obviously less quality than Lapua so I hope your issues are not indicative of Lapua Brass resulting in the same problem as Hornady.

I did have less stickiness as the rifle heated up.

I am hoping that better brass will allow me to tighten my accuracy/groups similar to what your rifle is giving you.

BTW, appoximately how many rounds have you put through the rifle? I am wondering if my barrel is ever going to break in. It fouls horribly and quickly.

I am seriously considering fire lapping.

 

[kaseyfied]

i used nosler brass and stuck a case at 88 grains with my lapua.. with lapua brass I am at 91.3 now and shoots awesome..

you should bore coat your barrel.. I have done it to all my firearms accept my custom lapua.. it works awesome.. cleans out very fast andcan shoot alot of rounds

 

[Aldon]

Kaseyfied, What product do you bore coat with?

 

[kaseyfied]

i use boretech.. i lapp the barrel with remington 40x first

 

[Aldon]

i use boretech.. i lapp the barrel with remington 40x first

Thanks

 

[Texas Republic]

BTW, appoximately how many rounds have you put through the rifle? I am wondering if my barrel is ever going to break in. It fouls horribly and quickly.

I am seriously considering fire lapping.

The rifle has somewhere around 150 rounds through it. I am convinced that the only time copper should be removed out of the barrel is during the break in process. This usually requires 55 rounds or so. Once break in is complete, only remove the carbon build up. If you remove the copper each time you clean, the bullets will have to re-coat the bearing surface before tighter groups will start to appear once more.

As far as my extraction issue is concerned, I am looking into bolt issues possibly. It may be something else, but my bolt is too stiff even without a case in the chamber. My primers are flat as well, but the load is way under the max and shouldn't have any pressure signs.

I have been watching the Magpul rifle precision videos and have learned a lot. It has explained many of the issues I was curious about. The guys were consistently making 1 mile shots with a .308. Yes a 308. Many problems we are having may also be related to our shooting style. I am not sure about bench rest shooting because I always shoot prone.

While prone, be sure you are straight behind the rifle. Your rifle should make a direct line going down your right check and inner right knee. This is very important. You want the recoil to come straight back. Many other shooting positions don't allow for this.

Making sure your crosshairs are level to the horizon, not just the rifle. This is tricky if you dont have a scope level. The effects of not having it level appear as close as 100 yards.


Dont wrap your thumb around the grip. Keep it directly behind the chamber. There is a natural tendency for the recoil to be skewed when your thumb is wrapped around the grip. Dont wrap your fingers around the grip if it's a bolt gun. Just press your finger tips directly onto the grip into the pocket of your shoulder. The easiest way to explain the proper grip is comparing to a jet fighter stick grip. 4 of your fingers should curl and press against the front of the grip, not wrap around it. Your thumb should be on top behind the bolt and your trigger tip should press evenly against the trigger. No grasping anywhere. Just slight pressure. Our hand should support, not manipulate the rifle.

Keep your elbows bent. This absorbs the recoil evenly into the pocket of your shoulder.

Aiming should only be manipulated with your rear bag. Your shoulder, hand, etc should only hold it there, not manipulate the rifle at all.

All of this minimizes all signs of your pulse on the rifle.

Last..and very important. Always load your bipod gently with your shoulder and back. Not your feet, etc. Just lean into it..not moving it. Just apply pressure forward. Any changes in your loading of the bipod will affect the impact of your round. Consistency is king.

It seems like a lot to remember. But it gets easier once its reflex.

I was also educated on adjusting scope paralax as well. This is where your crosshairs move in the scope when you move your head side to side or up and down. Your crosshairs should never move unless your rifle does. Parallax is the main culprit many times for bad groups because our head wasn't in the exact same position each shot. To correct this, do the following:

1. Adjust the ocular focus (O/F) knob while in full zoom. This is the knob on the eye piece that is closest to your eye. You want a crisp reticle. Don't be concerned with the picture focus right now. Just the reticle. Its also important to not continuously look into the scope while you do this. Keep your scope eye closed while you adjust it and open your eye for a second to see if its crisp. This is to keep your eye from adjusting to make it clear for you. You don't want your own eye to adjust, you want to adjust the scope's O/F. So make adjustments, open your eye, make adjustments open your eye. Get it crisp.

2. Now you adjust your focus of the picture. You can keep your eye open during this I believe.

3. Now check if parallax still occurs by moving your head up and down while keeping your rifle still. If the reticle moves any you need further adjustment. Many times it still may have some movement.

4. If still moving, turn the O/F slightly in one direction and refocus the picture as well. If parallax is better, continue this process in that direction until no movement exists. If it becomes worse, turn the O/F in the opposite direction and continue process.

The amount of parallax you are left with depends on the quality of scope. Many times some parallax will remain. Your goal here is to minimize it as much as possible. If some remains, be sure you always position your eye at the same location when firing. Consistency is everything.



Anyhow. Hopes this helps someone.