Re-size question

Certainly has been a lot in this thread to digest. I myself had to go back to post one. OP originally asked about "feel" for bumping. Should have been asked as how do i measure it? There is no accurate way of measuring by feel as others have suggested. Some may get mighty close but some method will be needed to verify it. And that will be by some type of measurement or comparison.
 
I did not say the die makes the brass bigger. It didn't make it smaller. But a die can make the brass bigger. If it doesn't fit the shoulder/ body junction right that area of your case will swell out as you bump the shoulder. Prove it to yourself by taking a neck die and bumping the shoulder and you will see the case gets bigger at the shoulder/body junction. The same thing happened with the Foerster bump dies. The original poster was asking about removing the ejector to feel if his bump is right. I said in a nutshell you have to measure your bump with a comparitor first. Just going by feel in the chamber can make you way too short. And just because he doesn't shoot long range is beside the point. Proper reloading is essential in any discipline from plinking to king of the mile. I believe I answered his question with facts and the proper way to check your bump. I have personally learned most of the nitty gritty stuff from hall of fame shooters. If any of you don't like the facts that's ok with me. I stated them which is all I can do. If I was hunting for crackers I would bait them in with peanut butter. Shep
 
25WSM said:
I did not say the die makes the brass bigger. It didn't make it smaller. But a die can make the brass bigger. If it doesn't fit the shoulder/ body junction right that area of your case will swell out as you bump the shoulder. Prove it to yourself by taking a neck die and bumping the shoulder and you will see the case gets bigger at the shoulder/body junction. The same thing happened with the Foerster bump dies. The original poster was asking about removing the ejector to feel if his bump is right. I said in a nutshell you have to measure your bump with a comparitor first. Just going by feel in the chamber can make you way too short. And just because he doesn't shoot long range is beside the point. Proper reloading is essential in any discipline from plinking to king of the mile. I believe I answered his question with facts and the proper way to check your bump. I have personally learned most of the nitty gritty stuff from hall of fame shooters. If any of you don't like the facts that's ok with me. I stated them which is all I can do. If I was hunting for crackers I would bait them in with peanut butter. Shep
Click to expand...
Don't know if your post was directed at me or not. If it was I believe I said the same thing, only much more concise.
Emphasis on measuring methods should be at hand now if this post should continue.
 
Only the cracker joke the rest was towards the Mike saying only a godawful die could that. He is sort of right if you have factory guns with loose specs. Your brass would naturally be bigger when fired and therefore most dies will make it smaller. But being a compatition type smith I make chambers minimum headspace. Most factory dies won't even push the shoulder back on a zero headspace round unless you cut some off the bottom of the die. And compatition Smith's will have their lathe dialed in dead nuts so that chambers are exactly what the reamer spec is. Much tighter than a factory barrel that takes 1 minute for them to chamber on a turret lathe. That is also why when you get a custom die they ask for 3 fired cases. So they can make a die that sizes all parts of your brass perfectly. I think Harrels has like 6 different 6ppc sizing dies of all different dimensions. Shep. By the way I love crackers and peanut butter.
 
feelinducky said:
I'm trying to figure out how to get the correct shoulder bump for my 270wsm. It is a Rem 700 built by LRI. I have removed the firing pin from the bolt to alleviate the spring tension while checking the shoulder. The problem that I'm getting (I think) is the weight of the ejector spring compressing the case. It throws me off when I'm trying to feel the closing of the bolt. Is this a common problem? If so is there any remedy other than removing the ejector spring? Or is there something else I need to do?
Thanks
Click to expand...

The OP is going by feel to determining if he is getting the correct shoulder bump. And the problem with using "feel" is it can vary by the type firearm and what the individual thinks he feels.

If you want to check your feel then try the primer method and measure how much the primer is protruding. Or just measure several fired cases with a Hornady gauge and call it close enough.

How many of you have actually measured a neck sized case that was fired several times until you feel resistance opening the bolt vs a once fired case.

How many of you have read that you should grease your bolt lugs when neck sizing to prevent lug wear.

The posting I made that showed how many times that brand of cases was fired before it failed showed the elastic limits of each type case. Meaning how the amount of head clearance/shoulder bump would effect case life.

Below is as close as I ever came to a case head separation in over 47 years of reloading. And this was a test to see how long a Winchester British .303 case would last when full length resized. This case had .010 head clearance and failed after the 3rd firing after stretching .010 three times.

NHlR9jO.jpg


Below is a sectioned Winchester case after its first firing and it stretched and thinned .009 with .010 head clearance. And after two more full length resizings the case cracked 3/4 around its circumference.

YoV80b4.jpg


Bottom line, 1 or 2 thousandths variance in the shoulder location after firing and measuring a case is not going to cause a case head separation. On top of this if you do not anneal your cases the brass spring back after sizing increases as the brass gets harder. So how many times are you going to take your bolt apart to see if the case shoulder is rubbing the chamber.

And the primer method lets you know your chambers actual headspace and you then set the die to bump the case shoulder back shorter using the Hornady gauge for both measurements. And this is far more accurate than using feel and taking the bolt apart.
 
Agree feel is not accurate.
I agree that any method of measuring/comparing will tell you where you are at. I measure two/three/whatever fired cases (the snug ones) from shoulder to base with custom made sleeves. Then compare the bump sized ones to to that measurement. I've made some of the sleeves with the same reamer as the barrel. It is true that there is no guarantee that the off the shelf dies will match the shoulder angle of my reamer but the results are as close as you will get without custom dies. Then there is no guarantee with the dies either because they are made with two different reamers because they have to be.
I also chamber and headspace all my own personal rifles on the tight end and often have to surface grind the shell holders to achieve proper bump.
There are those out there that can buy anything they think they might need. But there are some of us who have to sit down and figure it out. Not only to actually afford it but to make it right. At least right in the order of common sense.
This post got real ****y at times when it didn't have to. Sorry I blew off steam.
 
Like I explained before both are used. But the guage measurement needs to be the first one. So basically I set back my shoulders .002 And then I do a feel test. If the bolt drops with no resistance I'm in good shape. If it has slight drag I will go up to .004 total. At .004 it still has drag then I need a new die. Plain and simple. Instead of cutting my shell holders down I just cut.010 off the bottom of my die. Both of us are achieving the same end result 2 different ways. I think this was a great thread. When I learn from hall of famers and I share it here then others know what I got from them great guys from the sport. A big thanks to all the guys and gals at Williamsport for sharing years of their expierience to make our sports better. Compatition .Hunting. Plinking. We're all in this together. Shep
 
:eek:
I found by accident, the firing pin strike can set a 223 shoulder back .006" Savage Axis had a misfire, bad primer. (CCI 400)

The 2nd strike made the head to datum even shorter. Who knew.
 
It is always commendable to see newcomers ask. When I started reloading 53 years ago there was no internet and very limited information at the public library. When I installed my first McGowen barrel a few years later I had to try to school house my machinist friend about headspace. Like many on here the school of incipient head separation came as a surprise. There is a wealth of knowledge here and sometime no one method will work and even apply to everyone.
We as the instructors must explain but not confuse those asking questions. Also the person asking the question must ask for additional explanation when things get confusing.
 
342 winxb take a sized case and measure the headspace on it and put only a new primer in and fire it. Then remeasure it. Most cases will move .005 at a minimum. 300 wsm will move at lease .003. They have very thick shoulders. Over anealer will Definatly move more but a regular case that hasn't been messed with will move way more than you think possible. Try it and let us know. Shep
 
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