Ranging type reticles, do we realy need them??

[Pete Lincoln]

Well the definate answer there is YES. I was in Scotland last week, and fate will have its way.. murphy too.. lazer rangefinders are useless in Fog, dodgey in heavey rain. There was a fantastic buck at x meters distance, i could see the beast intermittently through the fog, the Leica wouldn't play the game and kept ranging the fog bank at 16meters in front of me. Now unfortunately i was using a borrowed 4-16x50 S&B PMII (as mine aint here yet) with the Byrant reticle, i was unsure of the graduations in the reticle. With the mildot reticle that i am used to i could have ranged the buck easily enough. Now its at this point you realise how dependent one can become on a lazer range finder, possibly loosing the ability to estimate range, luckily my guestimate of 200m was spot on. But it wasn't a nice feeling and i was uncertain.(untill i checked it later). The ability to range with your scope reticle is a definate advantage.
I shot the buck the next day, a very nice 6 point Roe Buck. Now to ad insulty to injury, nop sooner had the fog cleared than the **** display in the leica started blinking for low battery.. aaargghh. another case of needing to range with the reticle..
well after the fact i now know the divisions in the Byrant reticle (and don't like it,, too cluttered) I'm confident in my ability to range without any electronics, I'm convinced of the value of some type of ranging reticle, and i know the price of a new battery for the Leica.
I'd just like to remind you guys out there not to rely 100% on technology.. learn to use other forms of ranging, all be it as a redundant back up system, rest assured you will need to revert to it at some point..
happy hunting..
Pete

 

[Brent]

I'll second that! Adding to that is learning the size of the animal's body parts to be ranged, with the greatest accuracy you can achieve. Using a LRF and the reticle in the field to measure the animals in the field ahead of time works great!

What's the Byrant reticle you're refering to?

I'm good to 300-400 yards with no rangefinding ability using a very flat shooting cartridge, my guestimate is not off far enough for a miss on a big Moose anyway.

I've been in the same situation you describe, only dust was the big problem.

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Brent, the Bryant ( i some times spell it wrong) was designed as a Police Sniper reticle,( By Robert Bryant) its available in S&B scopes, maybe its ok when you get used to it, but i am certainly happier with the Mildot reticle. The steps for ranging by bracketing in the bottom or the reticle would be useful in the Mildot reticle and i believe the AI version of the Mildot has these, with the Bryant 50cm is designed to fit in between the lines and corresponds to(right to left) 200, 300,400,500m respectively, now this can be halved and does actualy work for the Roe Deer io was hunting, which are approx 25cm from top of back to underside of brisket, giving 100,200,300,400m. It can also be used for a man size target from waiste to top of head approx 1m, this would give 400,500,600 and 700m. its all the bits in the centre of the reticle that distracted me. How the hell anyone can cope with that Horus thing is beyong me..
Pete

 

[sakofan]

Pete, I see that S&B has added a "Sniper Reticle" to their website. It may have been there all along, Iam not sure.
Could you give me he lowdown on that reticle, if you know??...sakofan...P2 Sniper reticle

[ 05-19-2004: Message edited by: sakofan ]

 

[Sniper762]

Pete!

Good to see you here! It's been a long time since we last met. Hope you enjoyed the trip with Valery to Scotland.

You are right, the AI version of the S&B scopes do have the stadia in the bottom part of the mildot-reticle. The Dutch .338LM rifles have this scope mounted.

The drawback of this reticle, IMHO is that this scope lacks the dots on the lower one of the fine cross-hair wires, since this is surrounded by the stadia an would otherwise clutter things to much...

Hope to see you soon somewhere!

Stefan
The Netherlands

PS. You gonna build Marco a rifle? He's getting desperate!

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Stefan you old dutch fox, how are you? remeber the night with Marco n me up the tree when he shot that big boar pig? Trip with Val was great, we always have a great laugh, time we got the boys together again for a trip altogether, You, Val, Marco and Sander n me.. you don't need that stinking expensive dutch hunting license to hunt in the UK, Val is going to do his English one ( the DMQ1) we could have done with a few more bucks last week, but fog and lack of experience in some areas plus slow deer activity kept the bag down.
With ref to the S&B reticles.
P1 = Bryant
P2 = like Nr4 3 fat parts of reticle(2 sides and bottom) leading into a thinner part with the upper part same as the thin part. graduations or hash marks on the fatter part of the sides.
P3 = Mildot
P3L = Illuminated Mildot.
They also do an AI special, as Stefan said, its in the Brit and Cloggy sniper scopes. A Klein reticle, which is a bit like the Premier Reticles Gen 2, i believe they will also do the Prem Ret Gen 2. they also have a few custom reticles that they have on file that have been made for other people, and will (providing you pay for it) do custom reticles.

 

[1894]

My answer would be that out to 250 or indeed 300 a good stalker should be able to judge range purely by eye (ie bracketing etc) and not need ANY equipment.

I know I am in the minority here but with a 150m zeroed standard rifle one can simplify to two holds with roe out to 300m.

Half body depth for under 250 and just under top line for over.

Any doubt and you should shoot just under the top line and harvest your buck even if he is at 300 instead of your guesstimate of 250. Even if he proves to be at 100m (at which point you should seriously think of getting an eye test!

)you will kill albeit with a carcass damaging spine shot.

I do wonder how many people are using dedicated long range equipment on ordinary range hunting. I'm an ordinary range guy myself but enjoy this forum for the most part.

 

[Pete Lincoln]

1894, with the game dealers marking the carcases down so severly these days you need absolute pin point accuracy these days, on a Roe you have to hit a 10 cm x 10cm (4" x4") square, or do a neck shot. bieng zeroed for 200m and holding up or down a bit will cost you money on carcase dammage, you get paid little enough for venison anyway, you don't want to be damaging the spine(saddle) at all. I know my trajectory for every 25m out to 950m. ive shot roe at 620m, but that realy is to far if you are doing it regularly, if i come to Scotland its about shooting Bucks and i want to make sure i get a few, so i will take shots that i wouldn't take if i was a comission ranger or was the manager of the forest.
Pete

 

[1894]

I started to justify my view point but it gets a bit dull. Suffice to say I'm on the anti equipment side of the scale and get a little sceptical about the need for some LR gear.

At the end of the day it's what we enjoy and how effectively we use it that is important.

Any photos of the buck?

 

[Pete Lincoln]

soon as i get the cd from my mate who took a digi cam with him, i'll get some photos out, i'd say i'm in the middle of the road as far as gadgets and equipment, i use what is usefull and easily portable. mildots in a scope, a lazer rangefinder, an angle cosine indicator, a trajectory table, a harris bipod. I do have a mildot master but i hardly ever use it as ranging in meters and adjusting in miliradians of fractions there of is so easy. other items are a whistle, a compas and a flare, small medical pack.
ive got mates that carry a **** palm computer, spotting scopes, tripods, emergency rations, a full cammelback, and go off for a 4 hour stalk carrying enough kit for a week..
Pete

 

[Sniper762]

Pete!

Yeah, I sure remember the trip. Do you remember the look on the face of that attendant at the gas-station when went shopping for beer? And Marco trying to dig a hole in that hog with the absolute bluntest knife the world ever saw...

Got myself a beautifull Buck Alpha Hunter folder with ATS34 blade. That ought to do the trick on the next trip.

I checked the reticle on the AI S&B's mounted on the Dutch rifles and I was incorrect, they DO have dots on the bottom post. My bad....

L8er!

Stefan out