Birds have been hit hard in the last few years by avian flu, as well as racoon's, skunks and most other predators including snakes and people hunting them. We didn't hardly have any turkeys here in the 60's and 70's. Controlling the predators is most certainly important and most certainly helps the population of the other wildlife, ground nesting birds, antelope deer rabbits ect. Nobody questions the value of it., or any of the good management practices. The numbers of people out doing control work varies with the price that it costs to do it as well as the price one can get in return for their efforts. Most people can't really justify spending a lot of time and money if there is no return for it especially if they have a family to feed and raise and are on a budget. So, there are a few people that continue to do control work and some that still do pleasure hunting and calling or trapping of predators. Nobody argues with doing the control of animals to aid in the increase of other animal's populations especially if they are endanger of a population collapse. The government agencies in most states controls how the populations are controlled and which animals are being controlled at what times, by their workers, using various counting methods to determine what get the priority. Here they do counts and decide how many permits to issue depending on the numbers of animals, the available food base for the animals, and the numbers of predators in the area. With the fur prices nearly nonexistent not many people are taking racoons and the incidental skunks, so then along any streams or water sources their numbers will be higher sadly. Grain fields are a haven for birds, rodents and any other animals that eat grain or the green sprouts, and the insects that are also attracted to them, then the predators are attracted to those food sources. Small turkeys and other birds eat a lot of insects as well, so when they spray the fields to control the grasshoppers and such pests the small birds are killed as well. It's all a balancing act and the larger landowners have the determining vote. As far as I can tell there is not any one perfect answer. I don't know what recourses are available in your state and county, or through your state collage agriculture department, but I'm sure that there are some. Here the induvial counties have predator control boards the state works with them, and the USDA aphis wildlife services can be contracted to work with them as well. Our county extension office here has all types of information about who to contact as well there generally is a wealth of information and recourses out there once a person figures out where to look for assistance.
Ramblings and Such From Hunting Coyote
- Thread starter DSheetz
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trapper1954
Well-Known Member
Vehicle expense, gasoline, tires, equipment, parts etc drive up the cost of helping. Pay straight by the head can start out fine until your trapped out and asked to stay a little longer. In the end you cant erase the miles off your truck, trailer and 4 wheeler (10 tires on the ground). Look at a new truck, look at a good used truck, insane. To Me, A single coyote is worth the price of 1 market lamb, minimum (btw 1 axis doe=$600, buck $2500, delivered live, yes coyotes do kill grown axis deer, regularly) plus a skilled labor wage. No matter what pay you agree on if you have a rancher meddling with your operation after hours spotlighting/calling, it ain't gonna be as successful as it was planned. Once upon a time, I found a fresh killed 8 point whitetail buck. Killed by a lion and drug in a straight line 300 yards, I had evidently spooked the lion it had jumped a 8' deer proof fence landed 4-5 ft out on the other side (saucer size track) and headed up the mountain. I took the buck and moved it to the brush with 2 force entries 2 traps each with stepping guides, Bridger #5's and waited till morning. It was all messed up, the foreman had put 100 head of black yearling heifers in there after I left and they went exploring in a herd and got in the traps. Deer was gone as was the opportunity. No foul He didnt know what I was doing and I didnt know what he was gonna do. Ha Life is grand. You gotta live life to see it. I will be 70 come June and I dont see any upstarts to continue on with trapping. Most all I know with few exceptions cant set up a proper trap nor read sign.. True (real) predator control will fade away I'm afraid.
I'm not sure if it's me, the site or my internet provider but once again I have been having problems getting on this site. I got a message that said it wasn't relevant content and another that asked me if I really wanted to reply then one that said this thread was over 4 years old. I got the part above, but it didn't post my reply. Any way what I was going to say was as follows, maybe. I grew up with grandparents and parents that were masters of making do with what was at hand. My grandparents were born in the early 1900 so they knew what doing without was. I have been told more than once that CT was so tight that he squeaked when he walked. So, then I learned how to live on a budget that was tight also. The trucks that I drove were used not abused I kept them at least 8 years and often 10 years. I kept them maintained well regular oil changes air filter kept clean, good tires that lasted well with heavy side walls and not a real radicle tread so they would run 60-70 thousand miles. I have several firearms now but for most of my life it was one rifle one shot gun and one revolver. I never needed the newest latest and greatest calibers or the same type of calling machines. Hand calls work just fine for me still. I made my own snares for pennies on the dollar. Kept my traps in good working order. I bought a rifle in 1986 on sale pillar bedded it, reloaded ammo for it kept my brass and checked it to make sure it wasn't cracked, I put a good scope on it as well. I still use that rifle today with the same scope and several of the original brass. I run a moderate load not overly hot, that kills efferently, and it still holds a half inch group at 100 yards. All for under 800.00 dollars, yes I have made a couple that cost several thousand dollars, and they work beautifully, but I don't have to have them to get the job done efficiently. Used but not abused the same as the rest of my equipment. I learned to do my book work and keep good records so that when my taxes were done, I could take advantage of the most I could. I visited with the producers sometimes they would provide me with gas, and one even bought me four new tires of the ones I used. I learned to kill the correct animals as fast as I could, so it cost me as little to get it done as possible being as efficient as you can is most important to your survival ability in this work, it helps to work another job at night so that you can afford to do it per animal. I didn't sleep much for most of my life I only slept 3-4 hours a day. I learned that I needed to communicate with the producers so that they knew where I was setting things and why I was setting there or when I could set in this or that place. Not very many people actually want to do control work, but there are still some that do. As with any other job in the world several people will do it and probably one out of ten or so will become extremely good at it the most will be proficient, and a couple will decide that it's not for them. The world is changing, as it always has and will continue to most of the younger farmers and ranchers do a lot of their own predator control here and it's for their enjoyment not because they have to kill them to survive. So much of the income from ranching isn't really from ranching here now it's from what is under the land and the damage payments to recover those minerals. I have been blessed with being able to live life as I have when I did and where I am at this time. The world and life change the newer people will not know the difference as we don't understand tech the way that they do because they grew up with it and we didn't, we grew up with a different way of life that has now changed for the most part. How many millions of younger people are not aware of the ways of life on a farm or ranch, compared to those that do?
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I'm a fan of doing coyote calling during the day. I have good luck with it that way. I can see them without the aid of light or light enhancing equipment. I'm comfortable with doing it during the day, some people do better at night and have the equipment to do so safely. I'm comfortable with just using my hand calls for calling cats, coyote, fox and other animals while others aren't. Some people become excellent at using their e-callers, their night hunting equipment as well as hand or voice calling, along with their equipment for night hunting, we all have our own preferences for every aspect of what we do. Some of us just want to hunt predators at certain times of the year while others of us like to hunt them at all times of the year. Some of us are very good at snaring them while others are really good with a leghold trap for them. Some people don't use traps or snares and just call for predators. Some people don't call, trap or snare, they simply spot and stalk their chosen animals while others of us choose to shoot them at longer ranges. Still others only shoot at predators when they see them if it won't interfere with hunting the animal that is their intended target. It becomes an obsession for some of us while others of us don't find it exciting at all. For me it is an addiction and I take it very seriously, I use different calls at different times of the year but will on some occasions use those same sounds when I normally wouldn't depending on the circumstances, I will snare or set leg hold traps as needed for the circumstances. This is the time of year that some of my coyote vocalizations are used most often, and the prey distress sounds not so much. Later when the young fawns and other animals are being born then I will start blending in those sounds with the coyote vocalizations and also adding in a few different coyote vocalizations that they will be using at that time of year. It depends on your needs and what you intend to do as to what you will be doing if you just call at some times of the year when you think the fur is prime then the way I do things won't make a lot of sense to you. In the end it's about what you do for your enjoyment and way of thinking about it that matters.
I got a call from the helicopter pilot one night asking me if I could locate a coyote that one of his friends had been having problems with, he said that he had flown for it several times and hadn't found it. I said I would give it a try and arranged to meet the guy, it was forty miles out of town, so I left before daybreak and got there at sunup. He showed me to his pasture where the lambs were being killed, I hid my truck got set up and gave some locator howls waited and got a reply from a long distance out toward where I could see the top of a windmill. He called his pilot friend and in around half an hour we heard him coming in, he saw us and picked us up. I got on the headset and told him where I had heard the coyote. by the time he showed up we had some clouds roll in and spotting coyote from the air without good sunshine is tough duty. We headed toward the area where I had heard him, it sounded like an old male with a deep voice, we flew the area for 10 minutes and the pilot was saying he was pretty tired of hunting this s098 coyote and was only going to spend a little more time on it than it would be up to me to call, trap or snare the s00898! He made a turn came around and went past a clump of sand grass that grows about two to three feet tall and in a patch from 5 feet to maybe 15 feet in diameter. Setting in the middle of it was a coyote looking up at us as we flew by, I got excited and yelled coyote-coyote the pilot went into a hover and said where is it I told him he said I can't see it but don't shoot it. He hovered a little closer to it and it finally broke cover and ran. The pilot kept yelling don't shoot it don't shoot it and I going why not he said this p689 has been a real pain in my a45. He kept right on him for a mile or so then turned him toward a water hole, the coyote dove in and the pilot said wait till he comes out the other side then you can shoot it. It came out got a few feet out of the water and froze solid as a rock. Hot body cold water he locked up. I killed him and we landed his teeth were worn and some missing probably around 8 years old.
After people found out about me killing a few hard to kill coyotes I got called just to kill the hard ones so the kids and sons-in-laws ect. could go ahead and train a few more. People tend to want to try to do a lot of things for themselves and that is fine at least they most often try. Some of them even want to learn how to be better at it while others think they already know enough, people are people no matter where on earth you go.
One of the ranchers that I worked for asked me if I would spot for the plane the next morning in such and such pasture then go find the den on the ground as they had killed a wet female that morning in the neighbor's pasture. They had permission for me to go in there to locate for the plane and to take the den. I said that I would do that and having taken a couple of dens over the years from that pasture I kind of had a good idea of where to get started. I got in and set up an hour before the scheduled time and just sat listening. I heard the pups doing a group howl then the old male answer them they all went quiet, so I just sat and waited to be contacted by the plane. The plane contacted me and said they were twenty minutes out, so I howled at the old male with a long lone howl. I saw him jump off of a cut bank and head my way he was bout 500 yards out when the plane came within hearing range, and he stopped sat down and looked toward the plane. I told the plane where he was, they came in low and slow but didn't see him. The pilot powered up and came around this time I gave him a mark when he was right on top of the coyote and got a got him comeback. They circled around again and put two rounds into him. Then they asked me where are you we can't see you, but you obviously can see us and where the coyote was. I was setting at the base of a cut bank with the sun to my back and in the shadow of the bank. So, I stood up and waved at them. I worked with them several more times after that they were USDA Aphis Wildlife Services guys. The pilot was one of the better ones I've ever seen he had a lot of experience all over the world flying a variety of aircraft, OV10'S B17'S, DC-3'S HUSKIES ECT. .
lyle2231
Well-Known Member
Mr Sheetz I don't get to hunt 'yotes in my part of Florida. Besides the per kill
fee is there any fur/hide $ that can be recovered to help offset "cost of doing business " ? Thanks Lyle
98s1lightning
Well-Known Member
DSheets
Thanks for sharing all of this info/stories of your experiences
Its really fascinating, interesting, helpful to read through
Thanks for sharing all of this info/stories of your experiences
Its really fascinating, interesting, helpful to read through
98s1lightning
Well-Known Member
I'm from the East......
Is there such demand TODAY for this type of work on Ranches out West???
Its fascinating to think there are/was opportunities to make a living hunting.
NOT where I'm from!!!
Is there such demand TODAY for this type of work on Ranches out West???
Its fascinating to think there are/was opportunities to make a living hunting.
NOT where I'm from!!!
There are still opportunities for predator control work here. USDA Aphis's Wildlife Services still does work in several states, some ranchers still hire predator control workers, and several states have county operated predator control boards. There is still kind of a fur market when the fur is prime, fur being prime depends on the species of animal. Some people find markets for their animal's taxidermists ect. some induvials want a few pelts or animals mounted. It's not a job where you are going to make large sums of money you have to like several aspects of the lifestyle to stick with it. Most of the ranchers that I worked for have sold their sheep, turned their ranches over to the kids or have kids or sons-in-law that do most of their own control work now. I still do some work at times now but not as much as before, age takes its toll on all of us, and it's generally just for the well-educated hard to get animals that others don't seem to get. Yes, a person can still get into the control work, but it isn't just for coyotes it's for all manner of pests, P. dogs, racoon, skunks, fox, ferial cats, starlings, pigs and any other types of problem animals or reptiles even mice and rats. I specialized in coyotes but did a lot of other things also. I one time was asked to get a couple of dogs that were running at a dump site on a power plant I live trapped them the first day out, but plant hands turned my traps over and released them then tore up my traps. I had a talk with a couple of them explained that the dogs were to go to a no kill shelter. They checked to make sure that happened, the poor dogs were malnourished living on garbage and so flea infested and full of tics that I sprayed them myself before taking them to the shelter. People who don't want their animals should find a no kills shelter not just dump them out. I can't tell you how many times I have been told what a heartless no-good SOB that I am, had my equipment destroyed had the game warden or sherifs office called all by people that didn't know what these ferial animals were really going through or who were feeding wildlife that became aggressive because of it or how many animals I have had to put down from it, or dogs that have become livestock killers because their owners weren't good pet parents. As with most things in my life I tell of the good and fun learning experiences mostly. Dealing with people can be the hardest part of the job you need to be a diplomate as well as being proficient at different animal control aspects. I went to several training sessions just to maintain my certifications current and was even sent to a weeklong tact class because I needed to be better at dealing with people.
A younger guy that I know, and I were visiting a while back, He had bought a used savage 110 varmint rifle. He got it for a good price but when he got it home and decided to check its sight in nearly every time, he closed the bolt it sounded like the firing pin was dropping. He asked if I would look at it for him, I said that I would. I brought it home, made sure it was unloaded, then checked the action screws, they were tight, actually over tight, I took the action out of the stock, cocked the bolt and closed it gently, it didn't act like it shouldn't. So, then I pulled the trigger the amount of weight it took surprised me nearly no pressure on it at all. I then cocked it and with fast hard movement closed the bolt and it sounded like it fired. I got my savage trigger wrench out and checked it, someone had tried to set the trigger pull weight lighter than it was designed to be set. I adjusted it to the max, and it worked as it should, so then I tried adjusting the pull weight to its lightest setting the way that Savage says to and tried every way to make it do what it had before. I cleaned the trigger, reassembled the action in the stock, torqued the action screws to the correct torque, took it to the range and tested it out with ammo, all went well. Things don't have to be as tight as you can make them, they have specks for a reason. I think it was sold because the guy didn't know what he was doing and didn't think to check to see what he should be doing, and he thought that he had messed it up and made it become a dangerous firearm, to the point that it needed a new trigger. But in the end, it worked out good.
