Ramblings and Such From Hunting Coyote

[lyotehunter]

I went every weekend when I was working. Plus I stopped elk and deer hunting. Because of the coyote hunting. It started in October and ended in February after December it is mostly cats because coyotes fur stops growing in December and gets damaged. But the cats really get prime. All trips are about a thousand miles. Alot of our favorite places are at least three hundred miles one way.

 

[DSheetz]

The bald eagles and several types of hawks move south for the winter and will be getting back here before long. A lot of the golden eagles will winter here. With the bald eagles a lot has to do with the ice going off, you will see them gathered around where the water is open. The golden eagles here will eat a lot of winter kill and roadkill animals. It's pretty interesting to see a lot of birds of prey move through in the fall and again in the spring, you might see twenty or more in one day were in the summer you might only see one or two.

 

[Bucklowery]

We have a bald eagle nesting near our house and pond. They never leave. They have raised up to 3 some years

Thanks

Buck

 

[DSheetz]

It always amazes me at how up set some of the pleasure hunters and callers get at the guys that are doing predator control work when they are called to come solve a problem. It's like they don't understand that once the problem is gone so will the control worker and that there will be more coyotes and other predators come in to replace the ones that were killed.

 

[trapper1954]

It always amazes me at how up set some of the pleasure hunters and callers get at the guys that are doing predator control work when they are called to come solve a problem. It's like they don't understand that once the problem is gone so will the control worker and that there will be more coyotes and other predators come in to replace the ones that were killed.

You cant say enough about that Mr. Sheetz. Never much said about washing, boiling, dying, waxing, cutting cables parts, repairs, sometimes days of prep and now you are ready to help someone. Oh yeah and in the night someone did a control burn and ALL your stuff on board is ruined, stinks like burnt hide.. What does predator control work pay out there,Sheetz

 

[Travler]

It reminds me of the people that think they can train a Wolf caught in the Wild

 

[DSheetz]

It depends on who you are working for, as an independent worker I did it on a per animal basis, 50.00 per animal, when I worked for an induvial rancher continually like a ranch hand I still did it per animal but added half a beef, good quality beef not the runt, cripple or dry cow, the government guys had a monthly pay rate at that time it averaged close to 30,000.00 annually, the county was 25.00 daily plus bounty, 25.00 per coyote and 15.00 per red fox. I'm not sure what they pay at the present time. I haven't seen any one around here with a wild caught wolf but have seen several people with coyotes or red fox, they seemed to always have a wild side, and most would run off about breeding time. thus, you would shoot one, trap or snare one with a collar on them. I took care of a blond racoon one time with a collar on it, a 22 round between the eyes, it was a real pest for people scared a lot of people acting aggressive. Some railroad guys thought it was cute to feed a coyote till it got aggressive and a guy got bitten. The coyote was put down and sent in for rabies testing. Too much of the Walt Disney type of teaching wildlife is best when left where they are and feeding themselves, unless they are causing a problem. Then it's people and their lively hood first. Just my simple opinion.

 

[highfinblue]

I know this is radical thinking today, but my grandpa would kill anything that ate what he ate. He lived in the Great Depression, fed his family wildlife because there were plenty of times there was no work. He went to Montana and Wyoming to work on the railroad for fifty cents a day if I remember what he told me correctly. They ran trotlines in the Caney River a few miles east of here and sold the fish to local grocery stores. In winter months they would rabbit and quail hunt most of the day and then chase varmints at night. They went almost everywhere on foot. I can't tell you how many times he told me he would be six or seven miles from the house when daylight broke, and then they would hunt all the way back. It was always a hustle to just make ends meet. We certainly don't have to live that way today for the most part, but if I have to choose between rabbits, quail, pheasant, turkey, deer, squirrel, and anything else I might want to make some gravy with, I'm picking those over varmints every time. I simply do not pass up a coyote or anything else that eats the critters I eat as long as it's legal to deal with them. I'll throw my chickens in there too; coyotes love my chickens until they die of lead poisoning. I know folks say varmints don't do that much damage to wildlife, but when I was a kid, we would regularly jump a dozen covey of quail in a day. There were a few around here this year, but it's the first in I don't know when. A guy with really good dogs says you can walk all the way across Osage county to jump a single covey. The habitat hasn't changed that much around here over the last sixty years of my life, but game populations certainly have. Over the last several years I have killed literally hundreds of racoons, one summer alone over fifty. How many quail eggs and turkey eggs do those scoundrels eat a year? I know folks, at least some folks, believe this kind of thinking is wrong, and I am not trying to change that mind, think what you wish because I assure you my mind won't change.

 

[DSheetz]

It depends to a large degree what your goals are what you do. When it's your goal to stop the killing of livestock you will probably be like what I was. I specialized in finding the problem animals as fast as I could getting them killed and moving to the next problem. If I was working for one rancher or maybe up to three and didn't have a lot of killing going on, then it was controlling the predator population in general, that included skunks, racoons, feral cats, badger's, coyotes, fox etc.. When you get called because someone is losing lambs then it's imperative to get the offender as soon as you can then go back to what other projects you were working on. If you are covering a few thousand acres for several different people you try to fight the brush fires first, then do the general control work. I have lambs being killed but I also am seeing a lot of skunks or racoons in my feed lots, the killing is then the priority the racoons and skunks can wait till the killing stops, then you work on them till you get told there is more killing being done. Some people never got past the taking care of the killing and then were spread too thin having only time to get the killers taken out of the equation. If you are a hobbyist or pleasure hunter then life will be different and your priorities with it. The other predators will most likely be taken when the opportunity presents itself. The control worker is there when you as a hobby hunter, caller trapper or snares person are doing other things, fishing hunting deer ect. , I need you to come kill the coyotes that are killing my lambs, but I have a trapper that will be here this fall, and that's fine I don't need more to do. I do it nearly every day of the year and when the others come back, I'm ready for my life to slow down. Very few people are cutout for doing predator control year around, and that's a good thing, we all have things that we preferer to do, and things that we are better at doing then others are.

 

[highfinblue]

It depends to a large degree what your goals are what you do. When it's your goal to stop the killing of livestock you will probably be like what I was. I specialized in finding the problem animals as fast as I could getting them killed and moving to the next problem. If I was working for one rancher or maybe up to three and didn't have a lot of killing going on, then it was controlling the predator population in general, that included skunks, racoons, feral cats, badger's, coyotes, fox etc.. When you get called because someone is losing lambs then it's imperative to get the offender as soon as you can then go back to what other projects you were working on. If you are covering a few thousand acres for several different people you try to fight the brush fires first, then do the general control work. I have lambs being killed but I also am seeing a lot of skunks or racoons in my feed lots, the killing is then the priority the racoons and skunks can wait till the killing stops, then you work on them till you get told there is more killing being done. Some people never got past the taking care of the killing and then were spread too thin having only time to get the killers taken out of the equation. If you are a hobbyist or pleasure hunter then life will be different and your priorities with it. The other predators will most likely be taken when the opportunity presents itself. The control worker is there when you as a hobby hunter, caller trapper or snares person are doing other things, fishing hunting deer ect. , I need you to come kill the coyotes that are killing my lambs, but I have a trapper that will be here this fall, and that's fine I don't need more to do. I do it nearly every day of the year and when the others come back, I'm ready for my life to slow down. Very few people are cutout for doing predator control year around, and that's a good thing, we all have things that we preferer to do, and things that we are better at doing then others are.

States need to pay you folks well and work you all you're willing to work, and I truly believe ranchers, and hunters alike would benefit. The old timers I was talking about earlier wouldn't pass up anything that threatened their dinner table. My dad was a bit softer hearted, and had a live and let live attitude, but I know there was more game when my grandpa's generation handed it to the next, and there are fewer now than then, and pressure was far greater when almost everyone was eating off the land. Human population has definitely increased around here, but predator population is through the roof, and small game especially suffers in my opinion. I am all for game laws and following them as far as limits and seasons, but predator populations need to be constantly thinned; they're like feral hogs, well maybe not quite as bad, but they will take over if left unattended.

 

[DSheetz]

One of the ranchers I worked for understood the way things were best prioritized. When you get slowed down this fall around August before the dispersal, I have a skunk problem around my barns and feed lots if you get time to work on them, I would appreciate it. August is the month here that I see the most skunks traveling around. So, I took three of my live traps down and set them up and in two weeks had caught 35 skunks for him. He asked me when you are killing them how are you doing it that they don't spray? I would pick the trap up carefully and set it in the bed of my truck drive them down to a water hole in the creek and set the trap down in the water. Take them to a drop off spot and dump them out go back and reset the traps. In thirty-five skunks I did have one that sprayed. Being an oil, it floated down stream and I didn't smell bad from it. When You take the time and visit with the people you are working with then explain to them what goes on at what time of the year in your world most of them soon understand what you are doing, when you are doing it and why you are doing it at that time.

 

[DSheetz]

highfinblue; population fluctuations are an interesting and complex topic. Here during the depression people left and went to find jobs in cities, masses of animals died during the dust bowl period and people ate what they needed to, to survive. People and animals suffered from breathing the dust in the air and their lives were shortened by it, as well as the lack of proper nutrition. Then after the dust bowl when we started getting moisture again there was a disease that killed thousands of elk, deer, sheep and antelope that was similar to chronic wasting disease that struck here. It wasn't till the 50's that there were enough deer to open a hunting season my grandmother got one of the few licenses as they were landowners. In the 30's there was a prairie dog control program as there wasn't enough grass to even feed livestock, deer or antelope. I didn't see any white-tailed deer here till the mid to late 60's. The elk population was down as well, killed by drought, hunting and disease. It was the sportsmen and game and fish department that brought the animal populations back here, now it's that they are a source of income for the state as well as the landowners and are treated close to the same as livestock. The weak and not good-looking animals are culled by a lot of landowners through their hunters, and trophy animals produced in the process. People learned that good management policies helped them as well as the land and animal populations, controlling some animals to maintain populations that the available food base could handle, be it grass or a prey base. As with all other things it's a learning process for everyone involved, rancher, control worker or sportspeople, we all help each other in one way or another.

 

[highfinblue]

highfinblue; population fluctuations are an interesting and complex topic. Here during the depression people left and went to find jobs in cities, masses of animals died during the dust bowl period and people ate what they needed to, to survive. People and animals suffered from breathing the dust in the air and their lives were shortened by it, as well as the lack of proper nutrition. Then after the dust bowl when we started getting moisture again there was a disease that killed thousands of elk, deer, sheep and antelope that was similar to chronic wasting disease that struck here. It wasn't till the 50's that there were enough deer to open a hunting season my grandmother got one of the few licenses as they were landowners. In the 30's there was a prairie dog control program as there wasn't enough grass to even feed livestock, deer or antelope. I didn't see any white-tailed deer here till the mid to late 60's. The elk population was down as well, killed by drought, hunting and disease. It was the sportsmen and game and fish department that brought the animal populations back here, now it's that they are a source of income for the state as well as the landowners and are treated close to the same as livestock. The weak and not good-looking animals are culled by a lot of landowners through their hunters, and trophy animals produced in the process. People learned that good management policies helped them as well as the land and animal populations, controlling some animals to maintain populations that the available food base could handle, be it grass or a prey base. As with all other things it's a learning process for everyone involved, rancher, control worker or sportspeople, we all help each other in one way or another.

Definitely not opposed to proper management techniques, and I don't even care if folks manage their herds for trophies, who doesn't like to shoot a big bull or buck, but my main point was the damage of varmints on small game. Certainly those species fluctuate with feed and even natural cycles, but when you kill over 100 racoons on 70 acres in two years they are decimating small game, especially ground nesters. When I moved out here on this hobby farm that bordered by thousands of acres of cattle ranches to the north seeing a big flock of turkey was not a big deal. There was a small group of around thirty that were regulars, and I saw over one hundred gathered here a time or two. Over time those numbers dwindled, and dwindled, and I am certain at least some of it was predation. One hen had less than ten, I think it was five or six, but I can't remember for certain hatch one year, and she kept them here all spring. I watched those young birds disappear one by one, coyotes, bobcat, feral cat, I have no idea, maybe an owl or eagle, but something or things ate every one of the young birds hatched by that hen. I observed that, and no telling what all was going on because last year I saw sixteen birds total all year. Food is not an issue as I have stuff planted for the wildlife, and maybe that gives predators a good place to hunt, I'm no expert, but in my simple way of thinking, less predators equals more opportunity for game to survive. Those early years of my childhood around here they manged and poisoned coyotes, and I'm sure other predators got into the baits, and small game was plentiful. I certainly don't have all the answers, but like I said in my linear thinking I'm like kill them all lol.

 

[74honker]

I know this is radical thinking today, but my grandpa would kill anything that ate what he ate. He lived in the Great Depression, fed his family wildlife because there were plenty of times there was no work. He went to Montana and Wyoming to work on the railroad for fifty cents a day if I remember what he told me correctly. They ran trotlines in the Caney River a few miles east of here and sold the fish to local grocery stores. In winter months they would rabbit and quail hunt most of the day and then chase varmints at night. They went almost everywhere on foot. I can't tell you how many times he told me he would be six or seven miles from the house when daylight broke, and then they would hunt all the way back. It was always a hustle to just make ends meet. We certainly don't have to live that way today for the most part, but if I have to choose between rabbits, quail, pheasant, turkey, deer, squirrel, and anything else I might want to make some gravy with, I'm picking those over varmints every time. I simply do not pass up a coyote or anything else that eats the critters I eat as long as it's legal to deal with them. I'll throw my chickens in there too; coyotes love my chickens until they die of lead poisoning. I know folks say varmints don't do that much damage to wildlife, but when I was a kid, we would regularly jump a dozen covey of quail in a day. There were a few around here this year, but it's the first in I don't know when. A guy with really good dogs says you can walk all the way across Osage county to jump a single covey. The habitat hasn't changed that much around here over the last sixty years of my life, but game populations certainly have. Over the last several years I have killed literally hundreds of racoons, one summer alone over fifty. How many quail eggs and turkey eggs do those scoundrels eat a year? I know folks, at least some folks, believe this kind of thinking is wrong, and I am not trying to change that mind, think what you wish because I assure you my mind won't change.

The old timers around here were the same way. In fact back in day, there were bounties on many species, raccoons, coyote, fox, crows, etc. Many would even keep the birds of prey in check. Like you said, if it was competition, it died too. A very interesting place to read up on is New Zealand. There are no natural predators there. Hunters and game managers can harvest an amazing number of animals per season/year and every year there's that many more again. Lot's easier to manage when you only have to account for one predator in the equation.