QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Ha, yes - 0.072" jump. Fixed it up above. The RUM has a generous freebore but that would be excessive.
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Radical difference between Nosler 210 Gr Long Range and Hornady 208 Gr ELD-M
- Thread starter Les in Wyoming
- Start date
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Les in Wyoming
Well-Known Member
I am still trying to work a load with these ABLR in 210. I have tried seating depths from .021 to .110. They are all over the place. I got one OK group in .039. So I experimented with .037 and .041. They were radically way different. So I tried some more in .039 and they didn't all group. Got one OK group and some horrible. Exact same load, off sand bag bench. I also back off a couple tenths. Groups were worse. So I found the seating depth of .085 shot a slightly sub-moa. But .090 was horrible as was .080. So I worked up loads of .082 and .083. Also tried some with lower powder. Same thing. You would think they were shot out of different rifles. The exact same .085 load did not duplicate any kind of group again either.
This is really frustrating. I have had a lot of trouble with this Bergara rifle. It took a lot to get close to finding a load with Hornady 208 Gr bullets. But then I ran low on Hornady's. I can get Noslers, so I thought I needed to try them. The way it does not even repeat the same load makes me lose all confidence in the gun altogether. I am almost afraid to shoot some of my Hornady loads lest it does the same. I have had this happen before, where a super accurate load "changes" for whatever reason. This gun is so finicky, I don't need to go through this again.
If anyone can tell me ANYTHING, I would be much obliged. I bought some 210 Gr Bergers, but I don't want to go through this anymore. Nor do I want to shoot up the whole box chasing another load.
This is really frustrating. I have had a lot of trouble with this Bergara rifle. It took a lot to get close to finding a load with Hornady 208 Gr bullets. But then I ran low on Hornady's. I can get Noslers, so I thought I needed to try them. The way it does not even repeat the same load makes me lose all confidence in the gun altogether. I am almost afraid to shoot some of my Hornady loads lest it does the same. I have had this happen before, where a super accurate load "changes" for whatever reason. This gun is so finicky, I don't need to go through this again.
If anyone can tell me ANYTHING, I would be much obliged. I bought some 210 Gr Bergers, but I don't want to go through this anymore. Nor do I want to shoot up the whole box chasing another load.
Les in Wyoming
Well-Known Member
Thanks. How far back do you think I need to go? Would you say using the same powder charge would work?
I would drop down 2.0gr of powder and work up in 0.5gr charges and shoot groups seated .010 off and find the best shooting powder charge. Then do a seating depth test. I would start at .010 off and work back to .050 off. You should really see accuracy in there. If you don't, then the barrel is just really picky or you might have some other issue/issues going on.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Have you tried anything other than H1000 yet?
Midway has 195gr ELD-Ms back in stock right now. Part of me wants to tell you to write off the ABLR as just something that doesn't work for your gun.
Midway has 195gr ELD-Ms back in stock right now. Part of me wants to tell you to write off the ABLR as just something that doesn't work for your gun.
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Les in Wyoming
Well-Known Member
I guess i have come to that conclusion. I just saw a video where a guy said that sometimes, bullets don't work in certain guns. No use keeping shooting. He also said that seating depth should not be so sensitive if the bullet is right.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think at this point you need a major component change. Either a different powder with the ABLRs, or drop down to the 195 ELD-M and see if those tune better.
I checked the Nosler load data, if you were at 77gr H1000 under the 210 ABLR, you were over 100% load density. The table lists H4831SC at 69.5 gr/ 93% as the most accurate powder, meaning that got better results with a faster, less dense load.
load-data.nosler.com
Over time (and once this current craze has passed and you can find it), pick a manufacturer and try grabbing a pound or two of each relative burn rate they make. If Hodgdon is what you like, then from slowest to fastest it would be something like US869, H1000, H4831/H4831SC, Hybrid 100V, H4350, H380, Varget, H4895. Maybe put an IMR 7828/SSC or IMR 4350 in there to bridge some of the bigger gaps. Every one of those powders will shoot out of a 300 Win Mag, just some of them top out at lighter bullet weights than others. So if you only want to shoot 200s, you can start at US869 and stop at H4350, so only five powders to get.
That way when you get pinched by something like this ABLR that just won't group, you can change to a different powder or two just to check to see if it makes a difference before ruling out the bullet. It's really only about 5-10# of powder to keep around, not much in the long run and it helps you get some hard data to make decisions with.
I say pick one manufacturer and stick with it only for diagnostic purposes to keep your supply reasonable. If your load is best with H1000, no reason you can't try RL26 or Magnum, but those two don't help when it comes to needing to try a faster powder like the H4831SC to mess with the load density.
Here's the chart:
I checked the Nosler load data, if you were at 77gr H1000 under the 210 ABLR, you were over 100% load density. The table lists H4831SC at 69.5 gr/ 93% as the most accurate powder, meaning that got better results with a faster, less dense load.
Nosler Load Data
Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.
load-data.nosler.com
Over time (and once this current craze has passed and you can find it), pick a manufacturer and try grabbing a pound or two of each relative burn rate they make. If Hodgdon is what you like, then from slowest to fastest it would be something like US869, H1000, H4831/H4831SC, Hybrid 100V, H4350, H380, Varget, H4895. Maybe put an IMR 7828/SSC or IMR 4350 in there to bridge some of the bigger gaps. Every one of those powders will shoot out of a 300 Win Mag, just some of them top out at lighter bullet weights than others. So if you only want to shoot 200s, you can start at US869 and stop at H4350, so only five powders to get.
That way when you get pinched by something like this ABLR that just won't group, you can change to a different powder or two just to check to see if it makes a difference before ruling out the bullet. It's really only about 5-10# of powder to keep around, not much in the long run and it helps you get some hard data to make decisions with.
I say pick one manufacturer and stick with it only for diagnostic purposes to keep your supply reasonable. If your load is best with H1000, no reason you can't try RL26 or Magnum, but those two don't help when it comes to needing to try a faster powder like the H4831SC to mess with the load density.
Here's the chart:
longestrange
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2013
- Messages
- 108
Just a dumb question, but have you tried weighing a sample of 5 or 10 of each bullet type, and have you tried measuring the outside diameter of each bullet type with a precision micrometer? Another question is whether you have tried a single feed of the Nosler's, or at least checking overall length of the cartridge after a few shots?
Edit: Have you had a look at the primers after shooting? Is there a pressure difference indicated?
Edit: Have you had a look at the primers after shooting? Is there a pressure difference indicated?
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Les in Wyoming
Well-Known Member
I have not weighed or measured the bullets. I guess I took it for granted they would be accurate. I shot all the test bullets single feed, so didn't need to re-check any that had been in mag. As for the primers, they all look the same. No pressure signs.
slikmrc
Well-Known Member
I loaded the 210's in a 300 Wby last spring during a brass test I did. Was shooting these a little over 3000 fps using 85 grains of H1000 in a 26" barrel. The faster I shot them the better they grouped with this rifle. They shot under a MOA on a couple different outings. This does have a fairly short bearing surface for a 210 grain bullet so it seemed to take a little more powder charge without pressure for me. But their have been times I couldn't get a bullet to shoot in a rifle. I have a 6mm Rem that will not shoot an 87 grain VMax, tried different powders and seating depths with no improvement, I moved on.
