quick question about getting started

[rocknwell]

Gary, yes, i do indeed plan on getting into PRECISION long range shooting.

first, i'm on a beginning level. i'm not a novice at shooting, but to long range i am. and i'm DEFINITELY a novice at reloading, ballistics, and gun lingo, lol. i mean, i know how to take apart, clean, and put back together any M-16/AR-15 platform. but that doesn't mean i know the lingo or anything beyond basic parts.

so, while i am on a budget and i can't just go all out in buying all the best money can buy right off the bat, and with the knowledge that i can't just start out shooting at 500+ yard targets right off the bat, i am wanting to hit that "mile mark" some day. and then some! i just know i have to work up to it. so that is my goal and I want to make sure that i have enough good information to get me there! i appreciate your advice! i'm definitely soaking it all in.

i know that i'm going to be more and more anal about my loads as well the more i get in to it. i want to make sure i start with good habits and not pick up any bad ones if possible.

 

[diriel]

Good to hear,

Most of what you posted is honestly FINE! What I posted, and the 2 posts below mine are highly advised....and the Chrono... oh man I can not tell you the Pure Range Time and Head Scratching that thing has saved me. Not to mention rising component costs! For that matter, component availability!

look up OCW, they have a forumn.... seriously my friend And THESE days I use 3 round groups for load work ups. I used to use 5 and 10 round groups. But buying, or getting components these days can sometimes be a pain. Save the 5 and 10 round groups for verification of a great load!

Nice to see some one wanting to really get into LR shooting and reloading.

Gary

 

[rocknwell]

Thanks Gary, sounds great! i'll post again in a few weeks if i have any questions after i get all the stuff i need! Thanks again!

 

[dogdinger]

rocknwell......the main thing is to get started. I will use a fishing analogy here.....did you go out and buy the best/most expensive bass boat, fish finder, trolling motor, with every sort of rod and reel combo the first time you went fishing? No? Well you dont have to do that with reloading either. start with one of the premium kits like RCBS.....(i prefer redding) and get your feet wet so to speak..... you will figure out real quick what else you need.....and what you can afford....AJ

 

[rocknwell]

Thanks AJ. I definitely am going to do that. i'm thinking i'll start with an RCBS set up and buy the dies i can afford from RCBS, Redding, and Hornady. and just try to learn the science! i'm excited to get into it.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Tricky,

What electronic scale do you use? I am a few years out of date. The 2 scales I own suck for powder weighing. I only use them for things like weighing brass, which is not nearly as critical.

Just curious,
Gary

I've owned four Pacts , plus the BBK. One was stolen, and others just keep plugging away. Actually one is still new in the box, as I got it about six months ago in a trade. I use the scale to check powder thrown from my Lyman or Harrell (I do about every third charge till I get rolling, then I check about every six or seven rounds). The new one will be used with the electronic measurer I picked up used awhile back (seems to work well by the way). When I use something like 4064 or 4350 I will throw a charge a couple grains short, and then trickle right into the pan on the scale. But with ball powders and very fine grained powders I just throw them as they are usually within a tenth of a grain everytime. I did manage to scramble the brains on the second Pact scale, and the guy from Pact helped me reprogram it on the phone (took about twenty minutes as I really did a good job!). I've used the Lyman and the Dillon in the past, plus a Midway (blue one anyway). I liked the Pact better.

I've heard folks complaign about electronic scales in the past, and blaming everything for their problems. I've used mine right under flouresent lights most of the time with no trouble. I do use mine with a Monster power strip these days, and that seems to make some things smoother. I do try to avoid drafts, but don't goto extremes with the idea.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

wow lots of information! if you're asking me what kind of digital scale i have, i don't have anything yet. i'm not sure if you directed that question to one of the other guys who commented or not. it seems as though the general consensus is that the manual scale is pretty accurate and if i got a kit that has one in it, it will work for me getting started. obviously, i'm a serious NEWB at this, so i'm gleaning info from everyone i can. i would really love to invest in redding and/or forster/hornady dies, but my budget may limit me starting out, so i'll have to save up for those. i'm going to be buying a 7mm rem mag (most likely) and it will be my first rifle that i own, so i'll be loading for only 1 cartridge type. it looks like after i get started i'll be able to really expand my horizons with what's out there. thanks a lot everyone for your help!

never directed at anyone. I simply said what I do and use. I do recommend the RCBS/Pact table top scale. But you can get by with a beam scale. Just avoid the ChiCom stuff as you usually get what you pay for.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

If you count the Four Pact table top scales I've owned and the little BBK. I've checked two table tops and the BBK against a $10K digital master scale. The table top scales were within .05 of a grain or less (one half of a tenth of a grain), and the BBK was within .07 of a grain. To take this a step further we checked the master with the one used to check everything, and it was within about .002 of a grain after we let it settle down a few hours (different temp controlled rooms). My boss was so impressed with the table tops that he bought a bunch of them to replace the Ohaus 304 scales the guys were using.
glt

 

[diriel]

Trickymissfit,

Good to know. Yeah I have read where you have to have a fairly constant temp, and GOOD electrical power supply. Then you have to let the scale warm up for hours on end.

I am just not into all of that. Grab my calibration weight, calibrate my scale, and start reloading. The calibration only takes a couple of minutes, them im up and productive.

Until the day comes where I can Just turn the scale on and calibrate it, no thanks. My old mechanical scales do quite nicely, and will measure down to a single tenth of a grain. Hard to imagine even the highest end rifle being able to really take advantage of better than that.

I hear you on certain ball powders. On larger cases, some days I will even do the Double Throw for an end Powder Weight. These days I do not use a whole lot of ball powder though. Back when I was a reloading freak, I sometimes went out shooting just so I could have an excuse to reload some more. Odd as that may sound. These days, I prefer to load up a bunch, and then go out and have a good time numerous times before having to reload again. Some times that gets me into major weather changes, like from 105 F. ++ to down near, or even below freezing. I had started to take note of some ball powders giving me a lot of vertical, and even some times the load seemed like a whole different load due to the temp change. With the "extreme" stick powders I find this to be less of a problem. I don't like having to have several different loads for various temp / elevations. Getting old and lazy I suppose, truth be known.

I have had great luck with H4831sc, and H1000. Sure there IS a difference you can "see" out at long range with these loads, under the above stated conditional changes. The thing is, that difference, as long as you have REALLY done your load work up, is mild enough to be considered more of a shooters challenge, than a deal breaker. At least, that is how it seems to me. Others may have different results. My 6.5x55 BJAI likes the H4831sc, my old (sold it to brother & law) 300wm loved the H1000.

The most important thing is to have a good outing!
Gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit,

Good to know. Yeah I have read where you have to have a fairly constant temp, and GOOD electrical power supply. Then you have to let the scale warm up for hours on end.
That check was in a lab at work. At the house I do it very similar to you and everybody else. The power conditioner was just an experiment, and I do think it makes cleaner power.

I am just not into all of that. Grab my calibration weight, calibrate my scale, and start reloading. The calibration only takes a couple of minutes, them im up and productive.
my normal warm up time is about fifteen minutes, and while the scale is warming up I'm setting the rest of my stuff up

Until the day comes where I can Just turn the scale on and calibrate it, no thanks. My old mechanical scales do quite nicely, and will measure down to a single tenth of a grain. Hard to imagine even the highest end rifle being able to really take advantage of better than that.

I hear you on certain ball powders. On larger cases, some days I will even do the Double Throw for an end Powder Weight. These days I do not use a whole lot of ball powder though. Back when I was a reloading freak, I sometimes went out shooting just so I could have an excuse to reload some more. Odd as that may sound. These days, I prefer to load up a bunch, and then go out and have a good time numerous times before having to reload again. Some times that gets me into major weather changes, like from 105 F. ++ to down near, or even below freezing. I had started to take note of some ball powders giving me a lot of vertical, and even some times the load seemed like a whole different load due to the temp change. With the "extreme" stick powders I find this to be less of a problem. I don't like having to have several different loads for various temp / elevations. Getting old and lazy I suppose, truth be known.

I always try to load powder in the same loaction in my house. The only thing I adjust is to turn the ceiling fan off. The Monster power conditioner was just laying around, and I needed a couple extra power outlets anyway. I still like ball powders for my small case stuff, and some 24 caliber rounds.

I have had great luck with H4831sc, and H1000. Sure there IS a difference you can "see" out at long range with these loads, under the above stated conditional changes. The thing is, that difference, as long as you have REALLY done your load work up, is mild enough to be considered more of a shooters challenge, than a deal breaker. At least, that is how it seems to me. Others may have different results. My 6.5x55 BJAI likes the H4831sc, my old (sold it to brother & law) 300wm loved the H1000.

The most important thing is to have a good outing!
Gary

just a thought or two.
gary

 

[diriel]

My reloading bench is in my computer room. I used 4x4, 2x12, and 1 1/4" Decking Plywood to build my bench. I like a really solid bench. I have my Lee 4 hole press, and my Rockchuker both mounted, my Forster case trimmer, and of course my Uniflow powder measure. Back a ways is my 1010 Scale, mounted on a Step Up for easy reach and line of sight, and of course a trickler.

I hear you on the electronic. And perhaps one of these days I will join the revolution.

I do still have some ball powder floating around that I use for odd jobs, or stuff like you mention. One powder that has recently caught my attention is Alliant Power Pro 2000MR. Reportedly it has aproximately .85fps per degree F. change between -20 to +165 I think it was. Which seems fairly decent. From what I hear it was actually designed with the 308win, 175 SMK combination in mind. At a minimum I would like to get another 308win and try some of that with the 185gr Berger VLDs, just to see how it does down range.

Still another powder I would like to tinker with is Alliant AR Comp, which is listed as being "A new, and highly temp stable RL15 replacement". It would seem I have fallen a bit behind the reloading times. Time to "man up" and get to experimenting again! Thing is, I have not seen any New And Uber, slow burning powders yet. I mean H4831sc and H1000 are Real Nice and all...but you would think even they could be improved upon.

Before I can even consider the medium burn rate powders, I need to get another 308win. Like an asshat, I sold my last one to a Friend who really wanted it... Then again, I may just go with something like a 7-08 to unify my bullet selections Well sorta... decisions and choices!

Have a good one,
Gary