Questions about building a 1000 yard gun

[MudRunner2005]

I've got a load for my 308 that's flatter than the 260 running 140 vlds and gives up less than 10" of wind in a full 10 mph 1000 yard 90 degree value. 10" more of no correction. It's a fraction of that when corrections are made and a small misjudgment is made.

If you can take the recoil of the 208-210s, you don't give up any wind and 10-20" of trajectory against the 260/140 combo. Besides, I think too much emphasis is placed on trajectory. 20moa bases, adjustable turrets with reliable tracking and laser rangefinders have made 'flat trajectories' just about a null and mute point. It looks good on paper but that's about it. Paper ballistics are always fun but the fun runs out when you find out your hummer barrel has just been eaten up by being too overbore. You know, from chasing those fun paper ballistics.

The 308 isn't what it was 20 years ago.



M

To quote Uncle Si..."And that's a fact Jack!"

Seriously though, Michael is 100% dead-on. Bucking the wind with the 210 VLD's running 2,400 out the muzzle is definitely not your grandpa's old .308 shooting 7.62 ball surplus 175's...

A new era has begun in weapon abilities and ballstics, and the .308 has evolved right along with it...

My 210 VLD load retains 1,471 fps and 1,009 ft. lbs of energy @ 800 yards, and still holds 1,380 / 888 @ 900, and 1,297 / 784 @ 1,000... That's more than enough to do some damage.

 

[Michael Eichele]

And 2400'sec with the 210s is scratching the surface. There's potential for more and more to be had. The 210s are no joke for sure. Not saying you should change your load, just stating for those considering this combo that there's even more potential. 2600 is easily attainable and 2650 is possible but takes a bit more barrel length such as 26" or more.

Running the 208 at 2650 at 5000' where I hunt sheep and most of the deer I hunt there is over 1100' pounds at a full 1k yards. More than enough for any deer in North America.

 

[MudRunner2005]

And 2400'sec with the 210s is scratching the surface. There's potential for more and more to be had. The 210s are no joke for sure. Not saying you should change your load, just stating for those considering this combo that there's even more potential. 2600 is easily attainable and 2650 is possible but takes a bit more barrel length such as 26" or more.

Running the 208 at 2650 at 5000' where I hunt sheep and most of the deer I hunt there is over 1100' pounds at a full 1k yards. More than enough for any deer in North America.

Oh yeah, if I ever have to rebarrel it, it's getting a 26" barrel, and I plan on pushing the envelope a little harder. Currently @ 2,400 it's shooting bugholes, with no signs of pressure on my Lapua brass. Still ejecting nice and smooth, bolt handle isn't stiff, primers don't look flattened...So I might, just for curiosity's sake, see if I can step it on up a little bit to see what I can push it to.

But I run my 210's press-fit on the lands, so locking the bolt closed is pretty stiff. But it shoots like a dream.

What seating depth do you run yours at Michael?

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Im currently putting together a long action 308 with a 28" 1:10 lilja to push the 215gn berger at 2650 - 2700 fps for 1k yd ftr. The 308 is definitely still in the game.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Oh yeah, if I ever have to rebarrel it, it's getting a 26" barrel, and I plan on pushing the envelope a little harder. Currently @ 2,400 it's shooting bugholes, with no signs of pressure on my Lapua brass. Still ejecting nice and smooth, bolt handle isn't stiff, primers don't look flattened...So I might, just for curiosity's sake, see if I can step it on up a little bit to see what I can push it to.

But I run my 210's press-fit on the lands, so locking the bolt closed is pretty stiff. But it shoots like a dream.

What seating depth do you run yours at Michael?

I run my 208s at 2.985" in a Wyatt box which feed flawlessly. I don't remember how far off the lands I am but it's not much. I run the 190 vld .000-.003 off but the 208s aren't as sensitive. At that length I can still get 46 grains of N550 in the case. I could fill it up more but 46 is about as hard as I want to push them. RL17 can go faster. I'm at 2650 with 550.

 

[heelerx2]

I run my 208s at 2.985" in a Wyatt box which feed flawlessly. I don't remember how far off the lands I am but it's not much. I run the 190 vld .000-.003 off but the 208s aren't as sensitive. At that length I can still get 46 grains of N550 in the case. I could fill it up more but 46 is about as hard as I want to push them. RL17 can go faster. I'm at 2650 with 550.

M, did u have to modify the feed ramp? I can fit 2.880 in my A/I mag, but the bullet tips hang under the ramp.

 

[heelerx2]

I run my 208s at 2.985" in a Wyatt box which feed flawlessly. I don't remember how far off the lands I am but it's not much. I run the 190 vld .000-.003 off but the 208s aren't as sensitive. At that length I can still get 46 grains of N550 in the case. I could fill it up more but 46 is about as hard as I want to push them. RL17 can go faster. I'm at 2650 with 550.

M, did u have to modify the feed ramp? I can fit 2.880 in my A/I mag, but the bullet tips hang under the ramp. I have a Rem 5r.

 

[Michael Eichele]

M, did u have to modify the feed ramp? I can fit 2.880 in my A/I mag, but the bullet tips hang under the ramp. I have a Rem 5r.

No. The Wyatt box fills the void under the ramp for a smooth transition.

 

[liltank]

1. How would you rechamber a short-action rifle to a long-action caliber without it being a complete pain in the ***? There is a tool called a chamber reamer that will ream the barrel to the specified caliber of choice! As for it being a short action, I shoot a Savage that I helped to build in 338 Lapua on a Savage Target Action that feeds quite well as it is a single shot action. The only time you have to pull the bolt is to eject a loaded round. So a fired 30-06 casing would eject with absolutely no problems from a short action Savage, Howa, Weatherby, Winchester, and maybe a Remington after firing. However I did notice that Remington's have a much shorter short action than that of a Savage, Weatherby, Winchester or Howa short action.

2. Why the .300 WM for 300 yard deer shooting, when I can kill deer at 200 yards with a .17 Rem Fireball? That's overkill. How many people use a .17 FB to kill deer... you as far as I know. How many people use 300WM to kill deer and paper from 1yd to 1000yds... probably in the millions if I had to take an estimated guess. The 300WM is probably one of the most popular hunting calibers from the Atlantic to the Pacific since its inception in 1963. So... in the case of a paper puncher and a deer rifle to 300yds, makes perfect sense! As for the .17 FB... to each his own I say!

3. 6mmBR over a .308 Win? Barrel life won't be anywhere near comparable, and the 6mm is a .243 caliber bullet...Which is not what I would pick for hunting over the .308... I would tell him to pick a .257 Roberts or 7mm-08, or .260 Rem over the 6mmBR for hunting. The 6.5-284 would also make a great option, as Berger makes the 140 VLD's, and Lapua makes brass for it. Though I won't disagree with the calibers you have chosen, the 6BR makes perfect sense. It has better barrel life than the .308. Now I know its hard for you to wrap your head around something better than the .308. (I have 2!) But do some research and you'll see that the 6BR and its variants dominate benchrest. The standard BR has a smaller powder column, and longer neck giving it inherent accuracy and long barrel life. You'll also find that the .243 caliber bullet is very capable of taking deer and antelope size game well in excess of 600yds. Even with the .308 or any rifle caliber (i.e. .17FB), shot placement is essential.

None of your post makes any sense... As you can see, it all makes perfect sense. You have a lot to learn yet!

Also, the .308 Win will make him a better shooter. (Not necessarily)The .308 Win is the best training caliber there is for 1K,(Many trained marksman will argue this and say there are better calibers. The military only use them because they don't deal with change very well. It was developed at a time when 30 caliber was King) because it teaches him drop, windage, and flight times (Try a 22LR, does the same thing... you could also do that with your .17FB). It also has low recoil (Compared to what! a 22LR, 17FB, Bazooka!), uses less powder (So does the 6BR and accomplishes the same thing), is an easy caliber to load for,(So is the 30-06, 270, 7RM, loaded all of them in three powder weights at a set bullet length) and has great barrel life.(No argument from me)

Pay attention to the facts posted next to the comments!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Pay attention to the facts posted next to the comments!

As for your sarcastic remarks, I'm well aware of how reaming a chamber is done, and with what tools.

I can wrap my head around many calibers other than .308...I have LOTS of different guns in over 15 different calibers that I load for. I also have many in calibers that I don't load for, because it's cheaper to buy ammo than it is for me to load it.

I don't get what's with all the sarcasm...I never said the .300 WM wasn't a good caliber, so why are you yellling at me? I simply said that if 300 yards for deer hunting is all the OP intends to shoot, and 1K for paper that the .308 would do a great job for that, and have great barrel life...

I don't own a .17 RFB....My buddy does. I haven't shot a deer with it, but he has shot several out to 200 yards. Not exactly what I consider humane, just saying that it can be done. That was the whole purpose of using that caliber as an example.

Yes, shooting a .22LR can make someone a good marksman, and is a great training gun, but I'm not going to learn to shoot 500 yards with it. It doesn't possess the velocity and energy to shoot LR with.

I am not an expert on guns, but I do know a little, and I don't get where all the hostility is coming from?

 

[Michael Eichele]

I think MR2005s point was that it doesn't make sense to ream out a short action 308 to 3006. He!! You'd have to take the bolt out just to unload a chambered round.

As far as comparing a 22lr to what the original posters needs are, even if one is trying to learn drop, wind, tof etc...isn't a fair comparison. Yes, it recoils a lot less but is not adequate for 1000 yard targets or 300 yard deer hunting.

There are a lot of choices and some great ones that would work for the OPs needs. It just so happens that for what he needs and all the choices, the 308 really is at the top of the list. Especially since he indicated he may go factory.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I think MR2005s point was that it doesn't make sense to ream out a short action 308 to 3006. He!! You'd have to take the bolt out just to unload a chambered round.

As far as comparing a 22lr to what the original posters needs are, even if one is trying to learn drop, wind, tof etc...isn't a fair comparison. Yes, it recoils a lot less but is not adequate for 1000 yard targets or 300 yard deer hunting.

There are a lot of choices and some great ones that would work for the OPs needs. It just so happens that for what he needs and all the choices, the 308 really is at the top of the list. Especially since he indicated he may go factory.

Everything you said, is exactly what I was intending to say with my initial post. Especially the .308 to .30-06 comment. I was saying why would you do this, since almost all .308's come as short-actions, and all .30-06's come as long-actions. That's all there was to that. There was no sarcasm intended on my end.

Thank you for elaborating on it Michael.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I'm such a dork. This post is deleted. I was just confused.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have been in 1000 yard Br. for over 13 years and have seen many hunting guns brought and shot at 1000 yards. I can tell you a 308 is a poor choice. If you don't get loads and the right bullet it goes subsonic and shoots all over the place. 30-06 isn't competitive either. The little 6 BR will outshoot either of them hands down. The 85 grain Sierra hollow point BT was made for hunting and if you ever shot a deer or bear with one you would agree. That little bullet is devastating. The 6 Br with an 8 twist will run a 105 grain bullet at 3000 feet a second with great accuracy. Lapua cases last forever and you only shoot about 30 grains of powder give or take a little. They are very easy to get shooting because it seems the accuracy nodes are big. Herman aka bounty hunter and 4xforfun are both 1000 yard shooters and they are right. A 6.5-284 is a good choice too but they are barrel burners and sometimes really picky about what they want to shoot. A 300 WSM is also a very good choice. Great case life and plenty accurate. Holds a lot of todays records. Matt