Question on exceeding the max 84 gr by weight of Blackhorn209 in CVA Accura LRx

[Primative]

This fall past fall I tested multiple different bullet and Blackhorn209 powder combinations in my CVA Accura LRX, with 100, 110, and 120 grains by volume using the Blackhorn209 tubes to measure. I have since read that these tubes are notoriously inaccurate. I double checked myself and yes, when I measured the 120 grain volume on my three different scales, I got 94.8 grains by weight. This is more than 10 grains over the 84 grain by weight measure that CVA says is the max charge for the 50 cal Accura LRX. It works out to 79% instead of the 70% that everyone uses for volume to weight conversion.

My question is this: Since no harm came from exceeding the 84 grain limitation that CVA says is the max charge (other than a scope bite to my forehead), can I continue experiment up to that 94.8 grains by weight load, or should I simply count my lucky stars and not go there again? Does anyone exceed the max charge in their rifles on purpose? FYI, I have since purchased a brake and don't believe recoil will be a problem.

 

[ENCORE]

Things work out real well, until they don't. IMO I'd stick with what CVA lists as the maximum charge.
Its not the recoil of higher charges that's the issue, but rather barrel pressure.

 

[Reelamin]

I shoot 130 by volume all the time in my knight big horn and mountaineer. I weigh my charges and the weights are out in the room.
No one has been able to explain and show pressure figures for black powder. Or tell me why I can use a "magnum" charge of 150 with a 100 or a 500gr bullet.

If your gun likes it and you like it shoot the heck out of it.

 

[Stk]

If your question is whether you should exceed the manufacturer's limit by over 10%...no, probably not. I don't know if anything bad will happen but I suspect nothing extraordinarily good will.

Blackhorn says 120 gr of their powder by volume weighs 84 gr by weight. Sounds like your tube is wrong.

 

[Rick Richard]

All it takes is ONE bad experience. So, there is a reason manufactures place warning labels on their products. Why take a chance?

 

[ENCORE]

 

[cohunt]

Bh209 varies from batch to batch.


1st off-- don't use their plastic tubes to measure-- buy an actual bp measure that goes up to at least 150gr

--- find an accurate load by volume using a real measure, then do 2 things-- weigh it ( I've gotten anywhere from .7 to .77 gr/volume) and secondly chronograph it so when you buy a new bottle you can duplicate the load by speed/accuracy not weight or volume.

Once I get my accurate load for a bottle, I record the weight and I weigh out charges before I go to the range or hunting-- weighing to the nearest .1 gr has increased my accuracy quite a bit over using a volumetric measure.

Every time you get a new bottle you'll have to check your load/velocity again as bh209 varies quite a bit between batches

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Measuring BP or its substitutes by volume never seemed to be a good idea to me. I weigh every charge of BlackHorn209 and put them in the little plastic vials you can get on Amazon. I can easily put a max charge (84gr) in the vial along with the projectile. I'll take 20 or so fully loaded vials with me to the range. It makes life much easier and my charges more accurate.

The vials are available in different sizes so you can get them in just the right size. The vials that I bought have screw-on tops so they never open accidently.

Cohunt ^^ has a good point about lot-to-lot consistency. I think I'll pay more attention to the velocity of my loads as I open a new can.

 

[Reelamin]

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See what? I'm interested not arguing. I see a lot of pressure curves of unknown amounts with u known bullet and unknown powder charge etc etc. Did you use a strain gauge and on what barrel?

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I see a light 30k pressure with a 209 charge many posters would run away from. What is the pressure with a 500 300 200gr bullet. The same or higher I don't know.

Why don't the manufacturers publish the data?

So no one should ever exceed the velocity powder charge in any reloading manual.

Is there one company with published data that matches another companies published data?

If people want to live life by what your told by liability and income driven companies is fine by me.

 

[ENCORE]

See what? I'm interested not arguing. I see a lot of pressure curves of unknown amounts with u known bullet and unknown powder charge etc etc. Did you use a strain gauge and on what barrel?

I see a light 30k pressure with a 209 charge many posters would run away from. What is the pressure with a 500 300 200gr bullet. The same or higher I don't know.

Why don't the manufacturers publish the data?

So no one should ever exceed the velocity powder charge in any reloading manual.

Is there one company with published data that matches another companies published data?

If people want to live life by what your told by liability and income driven companies is fine by me.

The unknown pressure spike chart is when using equivalent charges of all the different propellants.
The chart has been available for a long time and yes, they used a strain gauge on the barrel. I did not do the testing.

The second chart tells the powder charge and bullet weight. That was also completed with a strain gauge on the barrel. I did not do the testing.

The manufacturers are not interested in providing data that 99.9% of hunters will never need, use, or let alone understand. Western did strain gauge testing of the charges they list in their test barrel. They also tested rifles such as the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUM) for maximum charges using strain gauges.

There's a lot of data and photos of those who decided to go well beyond what manufactures state is a maximum or just plain screwed up in some manner.

 

[Reelamin]

Sure we all can find where crap went wrong and people screwed up. Also lots of photos of guys claiming black powder and used smokeless. Videos and photos of guys blowing up guns with factory ammo. I approach many things with a different outlook and attitude.

Thanks for the civil reply and information. If I woke up afraid of what if or it might happen I won't be getting up many more times.

 

[Primative]

Thanks for all the responses and opinions. I like speed, but groups and safety are more important. I'll stick with 84 max.

 

[kfreeze]

The last batch of blackhorn I got last summer was slow. I had to step it up to get my velocity back. I push a 300 grn bullet at 2020ish and am still under what any 120 vol eq has given me by a fair amount. I just weigh what a 120 grn vol charge weighs and drop down from there until it shoots good. Blackhorn is made to be used by vol eq. You will not be unsafe doing that. Here is some load data to compare velocities to.

 

[DartonJager]

FWIW,
I have burnt through 4 into 5 10oz jugs of BH209. I use 110 grain BY WEIGHT charges in my 50 caliber T/C Encore and two Knight Elites.
I use to shoot my Encore and Knights just enough to sight in and get proficient at reloading and shooting them and that was till a LOT of shooting. But BH209 turned them into such consistently accurate guns I started shooting them just for fun. That is until BH209 got scarce.
Then I bought a several 5lb jugs and 10oz jugs and feel comfortable shooting for fun again.

It's just so immeasurably satisfying and immensely therapeutic shooting 3 shot 100 yard 1-hole groups with of all firearms a in line ML over and over. For me, it just never get boring.