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Pros and Cons carbon fiber barrel vs steel barrel
- Thread starter shedhunt
- Start date
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Preferred barrel blanks and Mcgowan will both do shoulder prefits. I'm pretty sure there are others, but those are the two easy options.
Found this (https://www.snipershide.com/precision-rifle/3311-2/) a little while back: interesting read and experiment, I'd like to see similar, more thorough tests on a greater variety of CF barrels, but alas I see way more hearsay on CF barrel than actual testing. Regardless, it looks like Proof CF barrels do cool down faster, although it appears they heat up a little easier too.
From CA ...
and C6.
and C6.
shedhunt
Well-Known Member
FEENIX, thanks for sharing
That's odd. I typically shoot 5 round strings with about a minute between shots as I record data and I can hold onto my carbon barrel after that. No way I could do that with a non-Carbon barrel nor can I grab and hold my suppressor so there is some insulating going on there.
That doesn't necessarily prove that carbon fiber is an insulator. There's a difference between heat load and thermal conduction.
Carbon fiber can be configured as an insulator or as a very efficient heat transfer material, with as much as 5 times the thermal conduction capability as copper. It's all in the makeup of the carbon fiber.
Consider carbon tension barrels, which are not carbon wrapped, but rather a carbon tube, tensioned from the ends, such as seen in volquartsen barrels. These only have a tiny fraction of the surface area of the carbon in contact with the barrel steel. Is the carbon an insulator there, or a conductor? The answer isn't as obvious as you probably think. What role does the air between the barrel steel and the carbon fiber play? What about the air in the bore?
Consider that all carbon barrel manufacturers use different materials and different processes to achieve the result they are after.
The consider that whether an insulator or superior conductor of heat than stainless… a cool outer touch does not indicate what is going on, because if it is dissipating the heat faster, or holding it in… will not be self evident. Both will result in a cooler sensation when touching it.
Then there's the fact that if the barrel material is skinny, and the carbon fiber has high conduction, there will be much less heat to hang around anyway. It will dissipate as fast as it builds. (Within reason)
If the barrel steel has higher conduction, it may actually stay hotter longer due to the significantly higher heat storage capability to begin with, due to its mass and density. As per usual, these topics get misrepresented and misunderstood so much on the internet shooting sites. Thermodynamic physicists exist for a reason. How it works is not self evident unless you've studied it at a high level for quite a while. I only barely understand it as it applies to shooting precision rifles, despite having spent a fair bit of time on it.
I'd encourage everyone to get into the science of it, and not engage it so much unsubstantiated speculation. In order to even discuss it properly, you'd need to get barrel manufacturers to disclose EXACTLY what materials and processes they are using… and they are not in the habit of doing that. I know because I've asked.
There are certain defense contractors out there that have spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get this nut cracked for the military. They don't care what their M249 barrels cost… they just want them to stay in the fight for longer strings of fire.
As is often the case, the academic discussion gets heated specifically because the ability for any one person to quantify their argument with any scientifically acceptable conclusions is impossible. So just like "glass quality" or "barrel break in" threads… these threads go on to the point of absurdity with nothing but opinion as a poor stand-in for facts.
The practical reality of all this is that carbon fiber precision rifle barrels are here to stay, and I'm glad they are. They've proven to best steel barrels of equal or often greater weight on a regular basis and the only down side to them is cost, which is negligible, as no one shoots enough to burn out their barrels anyway. Despite how much complaining about barrel life takes place, I bet there are fewer than 5 people on this entire forum that have replaced more than 3 barrels in the last year due to them being shot out. Most shooters will take 10 to 20 years to burn out a barrel, IF EVER. This is not conjecture… it's fact. Everyone's buying new stuff all the time… like constantly. Yet legit burnt up barrels needing replaced? That is more rare than anyone here realizes.
Every single one of the planned Primal Rights hunting rifles we are releasing in 2023 will have heavy contour lightweight carbon fiber barrels as standard. The heavy match guns and colony varmint destroyers will maintain thick steel barrels for obvious reasons.
So there's some perspective as yet another thread with a nearly impossible to quantify topic starts to spiral into madness.
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Why heavy vs. lightweight, assuming better consistency? Thanks for your post.That doesn't necessarily prove that carbon fiber is an insulator. There's a difference between heat load and thermal conduction.
Carbon fiber can be configured as an insulator or as a very efficient heat transfer material, with as much as 5 times the thermal conduction capability as copper. It's all in the makeup of the carbon fiber.
Consider carbon tension barrels, which are not carbon wrapped, but rather a carbon tube, tensioned from the ends, such as seen in volquartsen barrels. These only have a tiny fraction of the surface area of the carbon in contact with the barrel steel. Is the carbon an insulator there, or a conductor? The answer isn't as obvious as you probably think. What role does the air between the barrel steel and the carbon fiber play? What about the air in the bore?
Consider that all carbon barrel manufacturers use different materials and different processes to achieve the result they are after.
The consider that whether an insulator or superior conductor of heat than stainless… a cool outer touch does not indicate what is going on, because if it is dissipating the heat faster, or holding it in… will not be self evident. Both will result in a cooler sensation when touching it.
Then there's the fact that if the barrel material is skinny, and the carbon fiber has high conduction, there will be much less heat to hang around anyway. It will dissipate as fast as it builds. (Within reason)
If the barrel steel has higher conduction, it may actually stay hotter longer due to the significantly higher heat storage capability to begin with, due to its mass and density. As per usual, these topics get misrepresented and misunderstood so much on the internet shooting sites. Thermodynamic physicists exist for a reason. How it works is not self evident unless you've studied it at a high level for quite a while. I only barely understand it as it applies to shooting precision rifles, despite having spent a fair bit of time on it.
I'd encourage everyone to get into the science of it, and not engage it so much unsubstantiated speculation. In order to even discuss it properly, you'd need to get barrel manufacturers to disclose EXACTLY what materials and processes they are using… and they are not in the habit of doing that. I know because I've asked.
There are certain defense contractors out there that have spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get this nut cracked for the military. They don't care what their M249 barrels cost… they just want them to stay in the fight for longer strings of fire.
As is often the case, the academic discussion gets heated specifically because the ability for any one person to quantify their argument with any scientifically acceptable conclusions is impossible. So just like "glass quality" or "barrel break in" threads… these threads go on to the point of absurdity with nothing but opinion as a poor stand-in for facts.
The practical reality of all this is that carbon fiber precision rifle barrels are here to stay, and I'm glad they are. They've proven to best steel barrels of equal or often greater weight on a regular basis and the only down side to them is cost, which is negligible, as no one shoots enough to burn out their barrels anyway. Despite how much complaining about barrel life takes place, I bet there are fewer than 5 people on this entire forum that have replaced more than 3 barrels in the last year due to them being shot out. Most shooters will take 10 to 20 years to burn out a barrel, IF EVER. This is not conjecture… it's fact. Everyone's buying new stuff all the time… like constantly. Yet legit burnt up barrels needing replaced? That is more rare than anyone here realizes.
Every single one of the planned Primal Rights hunting rifles we are releasing in 2023 will have heavy contour lightweight carbon fiber barrels as standard. The heavy match guns and colony varmint destroyers will maintain thick steel barrels for obvious reasons.
So there's some perspective as yet another thread with a nearly impossible to quantify topic starts to spiral into madness.
-----------
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Subscribe on YouTube
Amazon Affiliate
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Heavy rifles are easier to hit tiny varmints with. Much less demanding on the shooter.
Hey now!That doesn't necessarily prove that carbon fiber is an insulator. There's a difference between heat load and thermal conduction.
Carbon fiber can be configured as an insulator or as a very efficient heat transfer material, with as much as 5 times the thermal conduction capability as copper. It's all in the makeup of the carbon fiber.
Consider carbon tension barrels, which are not carbon wrapped, but rather a carbon tube, tensioned from the ends, such as seen in volquartsen barrels. These only have a tiny fraction of the surface area of the carbon in contact with the barrel steel. Is the carbon an insulator there, or a conductor? The answer isn't as obvious as you probably think. What role does the air between the barrel steel and the carbon fiber play? What about the air in the bore?
Consider that all carbon barrel manufacturers use different materials and different processes to achieve the result they are after.
The consider that whether an insulator or superior conductor of heat than stainless… a cool outer touch does not indicate what is going on, because if it is dissipating the heat faster, or holding it in… will not be self evident. Both will result in a cooler sensation when touching it.
Then there's the fact that if the barrel material is skinny, and the carbon fiber has high conduction, there will be much less heat to hang around anyway. It will dissipate as fast as it builds. (Within reason)
If the barrel steel has higher conduction, it may actually stay hotter longer due to the significantly higher heat storage capability to begin with, due to its mass and density. As per usual, these topics get misrepresented and misunderstood so much on the internet shooting sites. Thermodynamic physicists exist for a reason. How it works is not self evident unless you've studied it at a high level for quite a while. I only barely understand it as it applies to shooting precision rifles, despite having spent a fair bit of time on it.
I'd encourage everyone to get into the science of it, and not engage it so much unsubstantiated speculation. In order to even discuss it properly, you'd need to get barrel manufacturers to disclose EXACTLY what materials and processes they are using… and they are not in the habit of doing that. I know because I've asked.
There are certain defense contractors out there that have spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get this nut cracked for the military. They don't care what their M249 barrels cost… they just want them to stay in the fight for longer strings of fire.
As is often the case, the academic discussion gets heated specifically because the ability for any one person to quantify their argument with any scientifically acceptable conclusions is impossible. So just like "glass quality" or "barrel break in" threads… these threads go on to the point of absurdity with nothing but opinion as a poor stand-in for facts.
The practical reality of all this is that carbon fiber precision rifle barrels are here to stay, and I'm glad they are. They've proven to best steel barrels of equal or often greater weight on a regular basis and the only down side to them is cost, which is negligible, as no one shoots enough to burn out their barrels anyway. Despite how much complaining about barrel life takes place, I bet there are fewer than 5 people on this entire forum that have replaced more than 3 barrels in the last year due to them being shot out. Most shooters will take 10 to 20 years to burn out a barrel, IF EVER. This is not conjecture… it's fact. Everyone's buying new stuff all the time… like constantly. Yet legit burnt up barrels needing replaced? That is more rare than anyone here realizes.
Every single one of the planned Primal Rights hunting rifles we are releasing in 2023 will have heavy contour lightweight carbon fiber barrels as standard. The heavy match guns and colony varmint destroyers will maintain thick steel barrels for obvious reasons.
So there's some perspective as yet another thread with a nearly impossible to quantify topic starts to spiral into madness.
-----------
Follow on Instagram
Subscribe on YouTube
Amazon Affiliate
This is the internet - we have zero time for nuance and facts! Only name calling and innuendo.
Actually that was a great reply.
Thanks for that
Wonder what the odds of someone like UM (Form) doing a comparison between popular SS vs CF barrels and barrel heat are?
Something like their latest comparison between very hot bore and cold bore zeros?
I'd certainly drop a $20 bill on Venmo to em to help offset the significant costs of such a test. As would others I hope.
UM being Unknown Munitions - they have a HUGE thread over on RokSlide forum discussing bore temp vs zero
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