PPU brass

[bigedp51]

put a feeler gauge between the shell holder and the brass that will increase the set back. my buddy 300 win mag has a tighter chamber than mine and that is all I do so I don't have to change die settings.
annealing will also help so try both before getting rid of the brass

can1010, the brass springs back to be too long, adding more length will do the opposite of what I need to do, the brass needs to be shorter to fit into the chamber again. these brass cases are too springy.

Putting a feeler gauge "UNDER" the case in the shell holder will push the case further into the die by the thickness of the feeler gauge and push the shoulder back further. This would be the same as lapping the top of the shell holder and pushing the case further into the die for more shoulder bump. Meaning you use feeler gauges to find out how much to lap off the top of the shell holder.

I would never use a chamber reamer to increase the rifles headspace to make the Priv cases fit the chamber. But I would lap .003 or whatever is needed to let the shell holder push the case further into the die.

I'm 69 years old and have been reloading for over 46 years and only once had to lap a shell holder on a tightly headspaced rifle.

Below are the three lengths of headspace gauges and if you increase the rifles headspace .002 there is a very good chance the bolt will close on the NO-GO Gauge. Meaning the other brand cases will have more headspace and will stretch more when fired and increase the chances of case head separation.

Pacific Tool and Gauge offers three lengths of headspace gauges per rifle caliber. In order from the shortest to longest, they are: GO, NO-GO, and FIELD:

1. GO: Corresponds to the minimum chamber dimensions. If a rifle closes on a GO gauge, the chamber will accept ammunition that is made to SAAMI's maximum specifications. The GO gauge is essential for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight, accurate and safe chamber that will accept SAAMI maximum ammo. Although the GO gauge is necessary for a gunsmith or armorer, it usually has fewer applications for the collector or surplus firearms purchaser.
   
   
2. NO-GO: Corresponds to the maximum headspace Forster recommends for gunsmiths chambering new, bolt action rifles. This is NOT a SAAMI-maximum measurement. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gauge, it may still be within SAAMI specifications or it may have excessive headspace. To determine if there is excessive headspace, the chamber should then be checked with a FIELD gauge. The NO-GO gauge is a valuable tool for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight and accurate chamber.
   
   
3. FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gauge, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gauges are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.

 

[KS2506]

Sir, why not try the Redding shell holders that come in different thickness. It would seem that a shorter shell holder would push the brass deeper into the case, thus setting the shoulder back further. Many years ago, with a 257 Roberts with this problem, I just ground a little of the bottom of the die and solved the problem.

 

[freddiej]

Randy, I this case, the chamber has less than 100 rounds through it. I have been fighting this problem for 2-1/2 years. he loves the gun but can't seem to get the PPU brass to size properly. with all the brass I have annealed and sized for him. he may have a bit under 200 rounds through the gun.
will keep everyone up to date. this is going to be one wild ride I suspect.

 

[freddiej]

KS2506, I thought about that, but I am not ruining my sizing die just for one brass company. second, if any sizing die is to be cut, it's going to be his. I have suggested this to him. the shell holder is a Dillon 550 shell plate. I am not sure how much I have to play with on the bottom of the plate. I have done this before when I had a way out of spec shell plate, the altered on is better than the production one from Dillon. I have also done this with a way out of spec 9MM sizing die, that was actually a lot of fun to make that old Lyman correct.
BTW, a partial setback would work on this gun. no sights, so a 0.010" cut off the shoulder and then 0.012"-0.013" deep ream would clean up everything.


Bigedp51, I must have read it wrong the first time. I get it now. the feeler gauge under the brass will accomplish what I need to happen. My headspace gauge I used for the 243 chamber is a 1.630"; the SAAMI absolute minimum. nominal SAAMI production spec. for chamber depth is 1.633"-1.635". These two chambers are already 0.003"-0.005" under established minimum for a production rifle. This headspace gauge, once I take the ejector out, is too long for the bolt to rotate into the "locked" position. the bolts do not want to rotate past just barely from the fully unlocked position. They get about 15 to 20 degrees of a turn from unlocked/primary extraction cam. The bolt face and gauge should just touch at locked position but not hinder the bolt rotation; which this stops the bolts rotation big time. This tells me I am under SAAMI absolute minimum for both the Savage and the Ruger. This now adds to the problem of everything culminating in two rifles owned by the same guy being "problem children".
Jay has not given me an answer as to letting me alter his reloading gear. he has expressed great interest in me reaming his chambers to accommodate his brass and clean up the messed up shoulder in his Ruger's chamber.
Go = 0.003" over SAAMI minimum (lowest allowable production excessive headspace- G.S. like 0.001" to 0.002" for target)
FIELD = 0.005" to 0.007" over SAAMI Minimum
NO-G0 = 0.013" Over SAAMI Minimum/0.003" over SAAMI Maximum) 0.012" over minimum will start case head separation.
For hunting rifles we (gunsmith's) like you to bring in a resized case from your setup so we can headspace to that brass. normally 0.002" over your sized brass for reliable feeding is our standard headspacing spec..

 

[KS2506]

Freddie, did not realize you were using a Dillon. They are great machines. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[cjl2010]

if I'm reading this right, you could spend $100 on some lapua 243 brass and be done with it?

 

[SealT5]

Or just trim a $50 FL die. I applaud your commitment and customer service but shop time is too valuable in this business.

You don't have a Standard O press you can simply lap a $10 shell holder on and knock this out?

Joe S.

if I'm reading this right, you could spend $100 on some lapua 243 brass and be done with it?

 

[MNbogboy]

Way back at post one gave me the impression 1200 rounds had passed through the ruger. At less than 100 your probably good to go.
Setting back a full thread (.062 in ruger american) would keep both the curvature & roll mark clocked as they were. Especially if the owner is satisfied with how it shoots. Clocking changes sometimes create diagonal grouping with barrel temp changes.
However clocking changes are insignificant. Possible to clean up that .002-.003 by hand without removing the barrel. All depends on reamer differences.

The shell holder modification normally would by far be easiest.

The nice thing about discussing and sharing with these forums is the result of several options after thought provoking ideas are presented for our problems.

 

[bigedp51]

Sir, why not try the Redding shell holders that come in different thickness. It would seem that a shorter shell holder would push the brass deeper into the case, thus setting the shoulder back further. Many years ago, with a 257 Roberts with this problem, I just ground a little of the bottom of the die and solved the problem.

The Redding competition shell holders are "NOT" shorter, they are from .002 to .010 "TALLER" and push the case shoulder back "LESS" than a standard shell holder. Meaning they do not push the case as far into the die as a standard shell holder.

Most sizing dies when adjusted to make hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over can push the case shoulder back further than needed. This allows the case to fit in any chamber even at minimum headspace. And the Redding competition shell holders allow you to decrease the amount of shoulder bump without touching the die.

Bottom line Redding competition shell holders are not the answer to this problem. And lapping the top of the shell holder is the cure to this problem because you do not need a machine shop to lap a cheaper shell holder.

 

[bigedp51]

If I'm reading this posting right the problem rifle has only 200 rounds through it and the OP has 1200 Prvi cases. Meaning they were fired in the other .243 rifle that has a longer chamber and are springing back more after sizing.

Problems:
You are trying to get cases fired in one rifle to fit in another chamber without using more shoulder bump. and the main problem is not keeping the fired cases separate for each rifles.

I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 fired in a multitude of different rifles and machine guns. And the first time I size theses cases I use a small base die and pause at the top of the ram stroke. And I have never had a problem with the cases fitting in three different .223 rifles and two .308 rifles.

A small base die will size the cases back to minimum SAAMI dimensions, including pushing the shoulder back more than a standard die.

The problem is brass spring back after sizing and not pushing the case shoulder back far enough. I would check the headspace on both rifles and see how far apart they are and see if you can make them match. You could also tell your friend to sell his old .243 rifle and keep the new rifle, and this would solve his problem. And a simple Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge would have solved this problem a long time ago.

Below a Lake City 5.56 case that was fired in my AR15 carbine, the die is then adjusted to bump the shoulder back .003.

 

[sawzall]

If they're coming out longer at the shoulder after resizing it sounds to me like you're pulling the shoulder out with the expander ball on the die. Lube inside the case necks well. Measure your neck thickness. Make sure the expander mandrel isn't too far up inside the die as this can cause the die to pinch the neck on the downstroke and pull the shoulder forward.

 

[Jack Beauregard]

Y'all I have been reloading on my own since the early 1980's this problem I am having with my friend's 243 Winchesters is either laughable or Privi Partizan brass hates me. Here is the situation: I can full length resize any piece of range brass or brass fired in his two 243 Win's and they fit in either gun. However: try this with PPU brass, which he has 1,200 rounds of, and 99% will not fit in the chamber again. The brass is 0.001" to 0.003" too long at the datum line of the shoulder. I have used my Hornady custom grade dies for no less than eight 243 win's and they work perfectly. I checked the chambers with my 243/7mm-08/308 headspace gauge and they are a bit tight but nothing that raises a red flag. The only solution I can find is toss the 1,200 pieces of PPU brass and buy anything else. I truly mean any other manufacturer of brass. this PPU stuff just will not resize to fit these two chambers. One is a high end Savage 10 varminter and the other is a Ruger American. Jay doesn't like my suggestion to fix the problem. Even he has noticed that the sparse amount of Winchester, R-P, Federal, and super speed brass he has picked up for the last 3 months is the only brass that fit back in the chamber once they are resized.
I have a second solution but it is very labor intensive and it does not always work. This is annealing them and quenching them 3 to 4 times to soften the brass to the point they do not spring back to out of spec.
I have several calibers that I have a handful of PPU/Privi Partizan brass for various calibers and this has never happened to me.
Has anyone else had this problem with Privi brass?

I know this is an old thread, but your comment answers the question I had today regarding PPU .308 brass. Same problem. I ran it into the case gauge and it wouldn't drop to the bottom. I tried a couple of pieces of brass in the bolt action rifle, and they wouldn't seat. I'll toss the PPU and call it a lesson learned.