Powder Prices - good lord

[QuietTexan]

There's a minor detail that you leave out... all that "profit" that comes out at every level also has a bunch of costs associated with it. Specifically in the form of paying normal people to work, which is usually the most costly part of any operation. The only way most people have to spend money is to earn it first, so instead of every step being a profit suck to screw the consumer, you should think about where we all fit into the food chain and take out our money that we end up spending at the end of the cycle.

There's a conspiracy idiot going around on social media claming that Vanguard and Blackrock "own" pretty much every business out there, because they have very large stakes in indivdual stock issues on the market. But the root truth there is they're two of the worlds largest asset managers, and Vanguard specifically is who runs most 401ks for normal people. So sure Vanguard "owns" all these companies, but millions of people with an investment account like I have are the true ultimate owners of it all.

 

[skipglo]

1) We all want the prices to DROP
2) WE ALL WANT the shortages to end
3) NEITHER WILL EVER HAPPEN if collectively we all continue to BUY at today's rates! It's pretty simple MATH.
I will start it off...I give my Solemn Word that I will not purchase a single reloading component for the next 90 days and will I Die because I haven't....No! ...who else wants to be a part of the solution instead the support of the problem!!!
This I will live up to ( note: I didn't say I would quit smoking )

 

[skipglo]

There's a minor detail that you leave out... all that "profit" that comes out at every level also has a bunch of costs associated with it. Specifically in the form of paying normal people to work, which is usually the most costly part of any operation. The only way most people have to spend money is to earn it first, so instead of every step being a profit suck to screw the consumer, you should think about where we all fit into the food chain and take out our money that we end up spending at the end of the cycle.

There's a conspiracy idiot going around on social media claming that Vanguard and Blackrock "own" pretty much every business out there, because they have very large stakes in indivdual stock issues on the market. But the root truth there is they're two of the worlds largest asset managers, and Vanguard specifically is who runs most 401ks for normal people. So sure Vanguard "owns" all these companies, but millions of people with an investment account like I have are the true ultimate owners of it all.

Profit...is what remains after all costs...it wasn't left out...it is normally understood as such!
Wages are a fixed cost
Profits in the other hand...are whatever the market will Bear!

 

[QuietTexan]

Wages are a fixed cost

That's very, very incorrect Direct labor in production is the textbook definition of a variable cost. Even indirect labor is variable to an extent, it's not as fixed as something like rent.

Profits in the other hand...are whatever the market will Bear!

Profit is not what the market will bear, PRICE is. Profit is derived after costs, and as evidenced by the recent bankrupty of a primer manufacturer (whose products' market could be desribed as selling water to a dying man in the desert) managing costs is the determining factor to actually making a profit at the prevailing price customers are willing to pay.

I get it, you're mad that prices are what they are, and you want to blame someone. So you're blaming the companies that make the products you want. But one of the fundamental root cause of higher prices is your dollars are worth less now than several years ago. Purchasing power was erroded by inflation, which is the worst tax borne by the working class because of it's insidious nature.

The President's team can, somehow with a straight face, say the economy is better because the current inflation rate is "only" ~3% (which is 50% higher than the Fed's 2% target), but glosses over the compounding effect of having "only 3%" on top of two years of the highest inflation in the last 50 years. They're the ones lying to your face.

Higher prices are here to stay because sustained deflation will never be (voluntairily*) allowed by the people who set monetary policy.

Voluntarily* because an externality could occuer. But absent China starting a war there doesn't seem to be anything big enough on the horizon to do that.

 

[skipglo]

If your cost of labor is a variable than how would anyone in manufacturing ever bid a job? I guess you just tell the customer his price will be set....upon completion,....I'm sorry...I don't know how many workers I need, I don't know what I'm paying them and I have no idea....how many hours it will take us to do the job....my labor is a variable!!! Wish I had owned my 6 companies during that period of business.....no risk manufacturing! However I do agree that Price is set by whatever the market will Bear...and therefore after I complete my manufacturing and I can get 2 times the price or 3 or 4 times what I last sold it for....didn't my PROFIT go up accordingly!? Just my humble opinion Sir...this is a shooting forum not a business class...so we can agree to disagree....no harm no foul either way! Maybe we are trying to say the same thing ..just coming at it from 2 different angles.

 

[The Oregonian]

Labor is usually treated as semi-variable…fixed in the short term and variable in the long term. The truth is that some things like retail sales can be super close to variable, while a union manufacturing company will be much closer to fixed.

You are both saying the same thing on profit vs price…this wording was confusing but you clarified in post 215.

Profit...is what remains after all costs...it wasn't left out...it is normally understood as such!
Wages are a fixed cost
Profits in the other hand...are whatever the market will Bear!

Profits are based on what prices the market will bear

 

[C-130 Dude]

Labor is usually treated as semi-variable…fixed in the short term and variable in the long term. The truth is that some things like retail sales can be super close to variable, while a union manufacturing company will be much closer to fixed.

You are both saying the same thing on profit vs price…this wording was confusing but you clarified in post 215.

Profits are based on what prices the market will bear

 

[Mike Matteson]

I just order out 2 boxes of 7mm PRC from Brownell for $43.99 per box. Midway was $55. 99 per box.
What I have been seeing is powder is coming down some. I think the store didn't get the purchasing before christmas like they wanted. With the credit card balance outstanding balances, people don't have the room to spend.

 

[BrBa.]

Been wanting to try RL7 in my .45-70. I notice an 8 lb keg of N130 is now the same price as 5 lbs of RL7, which seems crazy. Didn't Vihtavuori used to be one of the more expensive powders? Glad I stocked up on all my Alliant powders before now. They can kick rocks.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Been wanting to try RL7 in my .45-70. I notice an 8 lb keg of N130 is now the same price as 5 lbs of RL7, which seems crazy. Didn't Vihtavuori used to be one of the more expensive powders? Glad I stocked up on all my Alliant powders before now. They can kick rocks.

I am seeing a ton of stuff right now from Europe and overseas much cheaper than US products. S&B and Fiocchi 9mm ammo is $11.50 a box my price. The same ammo from Federal $15.60 and Winchester wants $16.40 for Q4172. For 22LR Rimfire 50 rounds boxes = Fiocchi is $2.60 a box Aguila 22LR $2.80 a box my price. Federal is $3.35 a box, CCI is $3.30 a box, etc etc.

Right now Reloader 26 is more expensive than H1000 and Varget at dealer for me.

Things are strange lol.

 

[Mike Matteson]

LRP are starting to show up more and more. The lowest price I've seen is $79.95/brick. I have not seen the magnum variety in any of the stores or maybe they are gone before I get there!!!

Lucky You! Just like me, A day late and a doller short.

 

[Pmerritt]

All these recent price hikes hurt the wallet.

 

[Mike Matteson]

That's very, very incorrect Direct labor in production is the textbook definition of a variable cost. Even indirect labor is variable to an extent, it's not as fixed as something like rent.


Profit is not what the market will bear, PRICE is. Profit is derived after costs, and as evidenced by the recent bankrupty of a primer manufacturer (whose products' market could be desribed as selling water to a dying man in the desert) managing costs is the determining factor to actually making a profit at the prevailing price customers are willing to pay.

I get it, you're mad that prices are what they are, and you want to blame someone. So you're blaming the companies that make the products you want. But one of the fundamental root cause of higher prices is your dollars are worth less now than several years ago. Purchasing power was erroded by inflation, which is the worst tax borne by the working class because of it's insidious nature.

The President's team can, somehow with a straight face, say the economy is better because the current inflation rate is "only" ~3% (which is 50% higher than the Fed's 2% target), but glosses over the compounding effect of having "only 3%" on top of two years of the highest inflation in the last 50 years. They're the ones lying to your face.

Higher prices are here to stay because sustained deflation will never be (voluntairily*) allowed by the people who set monetary policy.

Voluntarily* because an externality could occuer. But absent China starting a war there doesn't seem to be anything big enough on the horizon to do that.

Yet: The 3% over the 15 to 20 %. That increase didn't reduce the prices back on the 15 to 20%. It's just 3% on top of the 15 to 20%. Just what the government wants you to believe. So no inflation "Right".
We were building a piperline from Canada to our southern coast. The Dumb BAST**D Biden stop it dead in it's tracks for now. Biden, Pi** our reserved away trying to keep fuel prices down. You see what happen there. It's takes about $50.00 a barrel just to brake even.
Like the stickers on my Pickup States. "Whoever Voted for Dumb BAST**D Biden oues me money.

At the rate prices are increasing the "saving money by reloading" will soon no longer be a factor. I remember over 20 years ago when I started loading my own, it cost me about $7 to load the same bullet in my 7 RemMag that cost over $30 buying it off a shelf. Reality of it is I don't think I actually saved much, I just shot a lot more for the same amount.

I didn't ever feel that reloading was really going to save money. It's the hand load that is far more accurate than over the counter ammo. At age 14, I started reloading. It was very much cheaper, but I at the same time build my own loads for what I was going to shoot.
To me that's what I am still reloading for. Things have got more completes, but that builds a better round for hunt or target shoot.
The component yes are hard to get and expensive at the same time. I seen this before nothing new, and everybody is in the same boat. What was hard to believe is the price of powder in Canada.
I know I spent a over a year to get some powders. Finally got what I wanted, but at the same time I didn't buy everything. I left items on the shelves and let people know at the same time.
Want to talk about expenses, I probable purchase over $8000 in reloading gear in the last year and half. I have about that much in a reloading shack presently that I am building presently. (FINALLY). if you are trying to figure out how much the price of reload, don't. It's what you can do for your rifles, Shotguns and pistols.
It's the love of reloading and building ammo of your own making and help others at the same time. I am not a smith, so I have to go to someone to build a rifle for me.
We seen it all the time, new cartridges, bullets, brass cases, and several other things put on the markets.
Do feel we are getting stuck YES presently. A few months ago you couldn't even find ammo on the shelves.

 

[purpledragon]

Skipglo, All of us not buying, would stand to reason that it may get um to drop the prices. But in today's world, it doesn't mean they will.
I'm as sick as everyone else of taking it up the ole Keester, as they are truly raping us, it makes me so sick, I try not to even look for powder
now. I bought a bunch of the different mil-surp stuff from Bartlett.
It does burn dirty, just gotta clean more. They can take their powder prices and put um where we've been taking it!!!! JMHO