plastic flow of primer material

[Catbrain]

Now-- in light of that--- I don't think it was plastic flow-
( I didn't see any impressions on the case head-) i think it was a jet of plasma exiting along the side of the poorly sealing primer--- with some entrained brass from the primer cup---- and it condensed up against the boltface and made a burr that looked like brass foil- that was welded to the back of the cup near the side wall----

 

[243winxb]

Gas leak from loose pockets, or defective primers look about the same. Like these WLR

 

[Catbrain]

Win-
looks like it was all most to #8 and #13........
I don't want to go there again !
I have never had anything even remotely like that with 223 or 308. Are magnum rifle calibers just too hard on the raw materials ? or is it like I have read--- Fed. brass and primers are like warm play dough ? :-(

 

[Catbrain]

when I compare fired and unfired dia. at the top and bottom of the body--- (just below neck and just above belt) the unfired rounds are all .006 undersize. Fired are close to the diagram in the lee manual. (+or- .001) The primers in both the fired cases -- AND unfired cases are so loose I could probably push the primer in with my fingernail. That aint right. Going to call federal tomorrow ------

 

[TR1Hemi]

In my experience any given cartridge will show brass flow into ejector and extractor cuts with Federal brass first, stuff is soft. When buying ammo to get a supply of brass, and to zero break in barrels, I avoid Fed like the plague.

 

[evodude]

Another factor that comes into play is outside temps. Warmer it is, hotter the load is. Put rounds in a cooler to chill them and see if they're still running hot. If you have rounds in a plastic storage box in the sun I can pretty much guarantee theyll be running hot. Learned this on the prairie dog battlefields!

 

[Tiny Tim]

@Catbrain, I don't suppose you chronograph the factory ammo speed to compare to box label?

 

[Laelkhunter]

Another factor that comes into play is outside temps. Warmer it is, hotter the load is. Put rounds in a cooler to chill them and see if they're still running hot. If you have rounds in a plastic storage box in the sun I can pretty much guarantee theyll be running hot. Learned this on the prairie dog battlefields!

Also, while at the range and shooting several rounds, if you chamber a live round in a very warm chamber the round in the chamber can get really warm if you wait before you shoot it. If I am shooting with a warm chamber, I leave the bolt open and don't chamber a round until I am ready to shoot it. Progressive heating of the chamber and chambered round can result in some really high pressure if you allow the cartridge to "cook" in the chamber while getting ready to shoot again.

 

[Dean2]

You say the primer pockets in both the fired AND un-fired brass are loose. That being the case, the brass is definitely defective and should not be shot or used. If you are starting with loose primer pockets, the rest of the issues stem from that. Factory loads with out of specification components is uncommon, but it does happen. What you choose to do about it with Federal is up to you but clearly you don't want to reuse the brass.

Best of luck and happy you found the issue before leakage etched the bolt face.

 

[Hummer70]

Federal cases have been of the soft side for over 30 years. About 1990 two Federal engineers stopped by Camp Perry and I got introduced to them and I asked them why their cases were so soft and they said it was a cost of production savings. The more brass is moved in case forming the harder it gets. The said they used less steps to cut down on production costs.
In their 308 cases the military teams were using we picked them up,loaded them two more times and left them laying.

Now I ran tests using Lake City 7.62 Match cases and loaded them about 90 times and they were still good. I have a LC 65 30.06 case I have loaded 157 times and it still has a snug primer pocket.

I have seen similar in some Lapua 30.06 cases and had several primers fall out of fired cases when bolt was opened.

 

[highfinblue]

It is possible there's some carbon in the throat of the chamber. I'm not sure why, but we've ran into this more this year than ever before. A gunsmith in Elk City told us to check for it in a gun a friend was having pressure issues with, and it was a load he had shot in the gun for years. Checked it out and that's exactly what it was, Butch's, ThorroClean, and Bore Tech Inc all make solvents to remove carbon. You'll probably need a camera to look at it, or you can just clean it, but if it is carbon, it can be a bit tough to get out. My buddy worked on another gun, same problem, for a couple of days. Once it was gone, problem was solved, may not have anything to do with what you're dealing with, but if you can't figure it out you might want to check.

 

[evodude]

Also, while at the range and shooting several rounds, if you chamber a live round in a very warm chamber the round in the chamber can get really warm if you wait before you shoot it. If I am shooting with a warm chamber, I leave the bolt open and don't chamber a round until I am ready to shoot it. Progressive heating of the chamber and chambered round can result in some really high pressure if you allow the cartridge to "cook" in the chamber while getting ready to shoot again.

That's a great point. A super heated chamber will transfer heat to a new cartridge rather quickly. Then it REALLY IS a hot load!

 

[joelpend]

Gas leak from loose pockets, or defective primers look about the same. Like these WLR

Gas leak from loose pockets, or defective primers look about the same. Like these WLR

I had this exact issue with WLR a few years back. Turned me off of Winchester primers, will never use them again for anything except maybe a low pressure cartridge. Messed up a couple of my bolt faces just like yours. I used thousands of them when they were plated and never had a issue until they cheaped out and changed their cup.

 

[ChrisInKY]

Helping someone zero their savage 110

I have never had to get that "tough" with a bore before---- if I use that how long is a safe time to let it sit ?

This gun was bought used-- so there is that chance it had a hidden problem and that was kept hidden and just sold to the next guy.

"Could Be" someone took the barrel off and didn't put it back on properly.

Sometimes it takes a while to acquire a set of Go/NoGo gauges for a particular chamber. It costs a few bucks to buy a barrel wrench and crush washers. It's one of those jobs that's 'worth' doing yourself, because then you know it has been done right.

ETA: That's one of the nicest things about owning a Savage.

IMO though, it's most likely the Federal ammunition.