Picking the right copper bullet for a .308 Winchester rifle

[Technologist]

Terminal performance should be similar if that is your question.

Thanks. I'm thinking it might be worth it to try out a few of those as well in case the 168 don't fit well in my magazine.

The 308 has a tendency to be less stable than people think, especially at point of entry in a standard twist barrel. The reason is that it was designed that way so that a solid military bullet would tumble to cause damage since expanding bullets are not allowed.

From what I can tell, a good way to visualize copper bullet use is to imagine them as "one caliber smaller", so your 308 will behave more like a 7mm-308 or 243.

Using GS Custom's offering and charts as an indication, a suggestion would be the 308130HV080. Yes, 130 grain.

The listed standard twist for a 308 is only 1 twist in 12, so unless you use a non expanding solid, 150 grains seems very optimistic, which is typical of Barnes marketing strategy. I don't have any skin in the game, but I will admit to being a bit pro- GS Custom and less so thrilled with Barnes. Not entirely sure why, but it is true.

Combined with about 40 grains of Norma 202 it should be pushing close to 3000 fps in a full length barrel.

I have not tried this combination, but this is what the charts I am seeing indicate. Of course experience is better than charts.

Unfortunately, 130 grain bullets aren't legal on moose, wild boars and larger deer, here in Sweden. Also, going from 168 grain bullets (I currently run interbonds in front of 44.0 grains of 203-B) to 130 grain bullets seem rather steep to me.

If my barrel does fine with lead and copper 168's, wouldn't it be fine with at least 150 grain pure copper bullets?

Also, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk with a .308, at least not for the sake of inconfidence in the defensive capabilities of the cartridge.

 

[valleyloader]

What were the impact velocities or distances of those .280 and .30-06 shots, valleyloader?

Also, apart from the length and the BC, the 165 and the 168 TTSX are the same, right?

All shots taken on deer with the 280 or 30-06 were within 100 yards, as I mentioned I am in western PA. I rarely have a long range hunting opportunity there are places I can shoot 600+ yards however I rarely see what I am hunting for there. That being said the impact velocity for the 280 140 gr. would have been around 2750 fps, and 2900 for the 30-06 with a 150 gr. As far as the structure of the TTSX I believe they are all the same aside from the ogive, but I would think they would both perform equally well on game. However be aware of the length of the 168's I could not get them to stabilize very well in my 1:12 twist 308. I hope I answered your questions.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

,,,
If my barrel does fine with lead and copper 168's, wouldn't it be fine with at least 150 grain pure copper bullets?
...

Yes, and if a 10 twist, heavier.

 

[pods8]

I might be way out of line here, but if I were going to use copper bullets on an elk, I would probably use a .375 of some kind. A deer doesn't represent any kind of real personal risk to the hunter, but an elk does. Also in the US, places with elk often have bears. The elk I have seen in Oregon and Washington were pretty dang big.

I've yet to run into a bear hunting in WA or CO for deer or elk (often same/similar turf); but have heard some stories out of other areas. Also yeah elk are big critters but as always shot placement is a key factor, don't use displacement to cover up misplacement. Send a round through their spine and they're done. One of the perks of mono's are they are well constructed so going through the high shoulder to hit the spine isn't going to stop them, meat up there is thin and the bullet doesn't grenade so losses are minimal. The shock against the scapula will also help slam into the spine. If you are low on your placement then you're into the boiler room.

If you're a lung shooter then larger bore and also likely a different type of bullet would probably be a better choice on these larger critters whom have large lungs and can go far (if needed) on very little lung function.

 

[Sargesniper]

Hello,

I'd like some help from the ballistics hivemind. What copper bullet to load up in my .308?

I'm running out of hunting bullets, and I'm thinking I should try lead free for the next batch. The problem is that I can't really figure out the perfect balance between velocity and sectional density.

I've been using 168 grains Hornady Interbonds and Interlocks for years, switching to the bonded bullets for tougher stuff. This summer I shot a small Eland cow at a little over 200 meters with one of the interbond bullets. I recovered part of the bullet in the ribs on the exit side. It had broken up, but effect on target was satisfying.

Now, if I was to try out the Barnes bullets (or Hornady GMX if you'd recommend it), I'm not sure that I'd want to go with one of equal weight. From what I've heard, the TSX and TTSX bullets need some velocity to expand. At 300 yards, which is not an unrealistic range, my future bullet should expand.

This leads me to the 150 grain bullet. Isn't that a bit light though? At what distance would you be comfortable shooting an elk or larger deer with a 150 or 168 grain copper bullet out of a .308 Winchester?

Should I just give up the copper bullets and continue slinging lead?

A friend of mine is using the 168 gr. Berger bullet for Whitetail here in Louisiana with very good results. No run off and expire. Most are Close to or right where they are shot. Another good bullet for .308 is the Nosler Partition. Works very well on Elk and Mule deer also. Either of these will be fine in a .308.

...... SARGESNIPER

 

[Deleted member 46119]

CEBs are accurate and come in length+weight combos for the 308. Can you use a 150gn?

 

[rooster740]

Hello,

I'd like some help from the ballistics hivemind. What copper bullet to load up in my .308?

I'm running out of hunting bullets, and I'm thinking I should try lead free for the next batch. The problem is that I can't really figure out the perfect balance between velocity and sectional density.

I've been using 168 grains Hornady Interbonds and Interlocks for years, switching to the bonded bullets for tougher stuff. This summer I shot a small Eland cow at a little over 200 meters with one of the interbond bullets. I recovered part of the bullet in the ribs on the exit side. It had broken up, but effect on target was satisfying.

Now, if I was to try out the Barnes bullets (or Hornady GMX if you'd recommend it), I'm not sure that I'd want to go with one of equal weight. From what I've heard, the TSX and TTSX bullets need some velocity to expand. At 300 yards, which is not an unrealistic range, my future bullet should expand.

This leads me to the 150 grain bullet. Isn't that a bit light though? At what distance would you be comfortable shooting an elk or larger deer with a 150 or 168 grain copper bullet out of a .308 Winchester?

Should I just give up the copper bullets and continue slinging lead?

I have killed a lot of elk with the 308 tsx with 150 3000fps MV and 168 tsx at 2850fps MV a couple of cow elk out to over 500 yards. I tried the 150ttsx and they did not shoot as well in my rifle. I played with Nosler accubonds 168 and was not impressed.
I had the rifle rebarreled by a clown and it shoots slow and bad! So I went a couple years with a 300wm 168 tsx, 200AB, 215 berger and this year with a 6.5-06 improved 160 Matrix at 2930mv.
I am going back to Barnes bullets for sure but I have hundreds of 215 Bergers that I will play with in my 308. The 215 berger was a magic bullet to me, out of my 300wm and 300 ultra, but a muzzle break makes me flinch and my horse now runs 75 yards when I shoot!
150 and 168 tsx out of my 308 win typically always shoot all the way through a cow and bull elk chest with a nice exit wound. I am of the big exit wound to the chest means an animal unable to breath school. If a guy does find a barnes bullet it weighs close to 100% of bullet weight when it stops and penetrates like crazy!

My dad shoots a couple of cow elk every year with a 270 130tsx always shoots all the way through the chest. This year he tried the 129lrx they shot great! And worked to his expectations. One cow elk was 480ish yards shoot through!

Ps I also have a 375 h&h and it only goes on buffalo hunts

 

[Technologist]

I'd like to resurrect this thread by thanking rooster740 for your good info!

What load and what rifle lets your .308 spit out that 168 grain Tsx at 2850 fps? Or was that with the Win mag?

You and I have the same wounding philosophy. A hole through the lungs is very detrimental to the health of any mammal. When you're using the .308 like I do, what I end up wishing for is primarily penetration. I don't want a soft 150 gr bullet to break up in the shoulder of the critter I'm shooting at. That's why I'm interested in the monolithic bullets. However... I also want some expansion or at least some tumbling or something to speed up the bleeding for a quick death and preferably a visible blood trail...

I'd like to be able to rely on the expansion of my bullets out to 300 meters. I've gotten conflicting info on this, but from what I've read, the TTSX bullets need 1800-2000 fps to expand. If you're launching the 168 grain .308 caliber bullet, then you need a muzzle velocity at around 2650 fps to achieve that. Most factory ammo loaded with the 168 gr TTSX list a muzzle velocity of roughly 2650 fps from a 24" barrel. A "nominal" velocity that low could mean 2400 fps in the real world...

 

[Technologist]

I'd be really happy to hear from anybody who has shot the 168 gr from the .308 winchester. What kind of velocity do you get? I don't have a chrono, but I do have a 22.8 inch barrel!

 

[tony m]

Why not look ar the GS Custom bullet? made in S.A.If they were available in Canada , I would use them

 

[RevJim]

I just worked up a load with the 165 Swift Aframe and Alliant Power pro 2000MR in a 22" .308 that went a solid 2750. From my experience with Barnes ( I've used them since the early 90's, from the old X to the newer TTSX in several calibers) they are real killers. I never loaded the Barnes in a .308 though. My Afrikaner friend in south Africa has used the 165XBT in his 22" .308 for eland cull hunts with excellent results. I would go with the 165 or 168 TTSX, as mentioned, get all the accuracy/speed I could and use it with extreme confidence. My own experience is with that combo, your 308 will kill game like a 300 win that's using a conventional cup and core bullet! Its make them seem bigger in their effect on game, not smaller! The 150 TTSX would do the same thing, but I do believe the 165/168 is better balanced in the .308 myself. Although, the late writer and hunter Finn Aagard really liked the old 150X in his .308 for everything from deer to elk! Good luck to you friend.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I have some loads for 168TSX in a 22inch barrel.

2850 is too fast to expect.
2750 is doable but you are at the upper edge of pressures.
2650 is quite acceptable and was devastating on the pigs.

Varget is the still the accuracy king.
CFE 223 is working.

I am using IMR4064 right now.

 

[HarryN]

Why not look ar the GS Custom bullet? made in S.A.If they were available in Canada , I would use them

I am not sure if this helps you or not, but GS also has a factory in Michigan now.