bb204
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to highjack this thread, but JonA where did you find the A-Bolt scope bases ? Thanks
Opinions on the Falcon Menace 4-14-44
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Jon A
Well-Known Member
I designed those myself and had a machine shop carve them out for me. With long scopes (specifically my 4-14 IOR) I needed an extended base to get it far enough forward. I wanted it as low as possible since even the lowest tactical rings are higher than I need, I also wanted it light as possible but still strong so I used 7075-T6 instead of the more commonly used 6061-T6. I did make a couple extra if you need one. Otherwise PRI makes them for A-Bolts, EGW does (look on Ebay), Ken Farrel and USO as well.
Last edited:
bb204
Well-Known Member
Thanks alot JonA.
ScottBerish
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 325
LRHers,
Despite the positive initial review, I would be real leery of the 100% china made xtr-4-12
Scott
Despite the positive initial review, I would be real leery of the 100% china made xtr-4-12
Scott
Jon A
Well-Known Member
Heh, well keep in mind its price--not a whole lot to be leary about. 
You know me, I'd just love to be able to justify a $1500 scope for everything but what this will be used for simply doesn't rate that much sacrifice. Besides, it makes me appreciate the IOR all that much more when I use them side by side.
I'm not sure what you mean by xtr-4-12, though. It's most certainly a 4-14 and I've never seen any xtr that remotely resembles it.
You know me, I'd just love to be able to justify a $1500 scope for everything but what this will be used for simply doesn't rate that much sacrifice. Besides, it makes me appreciate the IOR all that much more when I use them side by side. I'm not sure what you mean by xtr-4-12, though. It's most certainly a 4-14 and I've never seen any xtr that remotely resembles it.
Jon A
Well-Known Member
I figured I'd give an update. After spending some time with it, I'm still very pleased. I'd have to say the more I use it the more I like it. With about 150 rounds under it now, most from the 7-08 but also a handful on the 300 RUM it has held up nicely and everything's working 100%. The turrets have been easy to use and totally repeatable spun from 100 to 1100 yds and everywhere in between many times, the side focus has worked well, the reticle is a joy to use and the turrets and the reticle working together works really well. I did numerous speed drills on targets at different distances, dialing the first and holding the second on the reticle and going back and forth as fast as I could accurately. Much fun. In all, performance far exceeding its price point.
Here's a view of a gong from 1000 yds:
It really works well as a cheaper little brother to the IOR or S&B or a USO. With the good FFP Mil reticle and Mil clicks, you can switch back and forth with no real change in function or operation. Using it next to the IOR and S&B the only differences you really notice is the glass and the knobs.
On the glass, I did compare it with the 4.5-14 VXIII Leupold as I said I was going to:
I thought the Leupold was about the same sharpness or maybe a hair sharper resolution-wise, but the Falcon was clearer. My dad thought the Falcon was better all the way around. It was a fairly quick, informal comparison without getting scientific about it, looking at resolution charts, etc, so I won't declare it's absolutely better than VXIII glass, but it's certainly comparable. HERE is a test another guy did comparing it to his Premier MKIV, where he thought the MKIV was slightly better (he also froze it, dunked it in water and other fun stuff).
Of course that's a ways off from IOR or S&B glass, so if you're switching between those you will notice a big difference as I mentioned above. Often when having trouble seeing a hole in paper or a hit on steel way out there, I could switch to the S&B and see it better even though it's only 12X vs. 14X. The 18X IOR is on a whole different level. But, if what you're used to is Leupold-ish glass, you won't notice much if any drop-off.
As I said the knobs are mushier but functionally what you notice compared to the other two is only having 6 Mils per turn (about 20.6 MOA) which means you need to keep track of your turns at common (for me at least) ranges. It's something you need to be aware of and can mess up that simply isn't a worry with the others. This is nothing specific against this scope as most of the scopes we use here are the same (actually that's more travel than many much more expensive scopes) so most of us are used to that and can deal with it just fine…but when you get used to using scopes with the big knobs like IOR, S&B and USO, going back to the little knobs makes them seem sort of silly. I kept thinking the S&B had a zero stop but didn't really need it, this one could have used it a lot more.
So those are the main two things you notice when comparing it to the big boys. But don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say everything else is equal. Its long term durability isn't proven and with so much China made content certainly shouldn't be taken for granted. There are things you notice if you look closely enough—like the click value being off slightly. Once it's incorporated into your drop chart/calculations you don't notice it in use but it's not perfect either. Also the turrets and the way they engage the erector assembly aren't as robust. If you hold it solidly and grab one of the knobs and push on it while looking through it you can see the reticle move. It always seems to pop back to the correct place when you let go, but it doesn't inspire confidence like the others.
So of course there is certainly more than is skin deep you're paying for with the more expensive scopes. I'll always feel like this one is sort of a cheap imitation of the others. But it's one that works. I wouldn't hesitate to head out the door with it tomorrow feeling well equipped for any hunting situation I could think of. And it's so nice to be able to scope another rifle with a scope that works just like and does a really good impression of "the real thing" for such a tiny fraction of the cost. Knowing some of the luck I've had with much more expensive scopes lately, it's nice to have this success story to think about.
Anyway, hopefully some will find that info useful.
Here's a view of a gong from 1000 yds:
It really works well as a cheaper little brother to the IOR or S&B or a USO. With the good FFP Mil reticle and Mil clicks, you can switch back and forth with no real change in function or operation. Using it next to the IOR and S&B the only differences you really notice is the glass and the knobs.
On the glass, I did compare it with the 4.5-14 VXIII Leupold as I said I was going to:
I thought the Leupold was about the same sharpness or maybe a hair sharper resolution-wise, but the Falcon was clearer. My dad thought the Falcon was better all the way around. It was a fairly quick, informal comparison without getting scientific about it, looking at resolution charts, etc, so I won't declare it's absolutely better than VXIII glass, but it's certainly comparable. HERE is a test another guy did comparing it to his Premier MKIV, where he thought the MKIV was slightly better (he also froze it, dunked it in water and other fun stuff).
Of course that's a ways off from IOR or S&B glass, so if you're switching between those you will notice a big difference as I mentioned above. Often when having trouble seeing a hole in paper or a hit on steel way out there, I could switch to the S&B and see it better even though it's only 12X vs. 14X. The 18X IOR is on a whole different level. But, if what you're used to is Leupold-ish glass, you won't notice much if any drop-off.
As I said the knobs are mushier but functionally what you notice compared to the other two is only having 6 Mils per turn (about 20.6 MOA) which means you need to keep track of your turns at common (for me at least) ranges. It's something you need to be aware of and can mess up that simply isn't a worry with the others. This is nothing specific against this scope as most of the scopes we use here are the same (actually that's more travel than many much more expensive scopes) so most of us are used to that and can deal with it just fine…but when you get used to using scopes with the big knobs like IOR, S&B and USO, going back to the little knobs makes them seem sort of silly. I kept thinking the S&B had a zero stop but didn't really need it, this one could have used it a lot more.
So those are the main two things you notice when comparing it to the big boys. But don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say everything else is equal. Its long term durability isn't proven and with so much China made content certainly shouldn't be taken for granted. There are things you notice if you look closely enough—like the click value being off slightly. Once it's incorporated into your drop chart/calculations you don't notice it in use but it's not perfect either. Also the turrets and the way they engage the erector assembly aren't as robust. If you hold it solidly and grab one of the knobs and push on it while looking through it you can see the reticle move. It always seems to pop back to the correct place when you let go, but it doesn't inspire confidence like the others.
So of course there is certainly more than is skin deep you're paying for with the more expensive scopes. I'll always feel like this one is sort of a cheap imitation of the others. But it's one that works. I wouldn't hesitate to head out the door with it tomorrow feeling well equipped for any hunting situation I could think of. And it's so nice to be able to scope another rifle with a scope that works just like and does a really good impression of "the real thing" for such a tiny fraction of the cost. Knowing some of the luck I've had with much more expensive scopes lately, it's nice to have this success story to think about.
Anyway, hopefully some will find that info useful.
I found it extremely useful. I wish I'd seen it earlier....might have ended up with this over the IOR. As it was, when I bought, I thought IOR was the only game in town with matching mil turrets with a mil reticle and FFP for under $1500 that had better than 10X magnification. The only other choice I found was the Horus Raptor at $945 with 16X magnification but only a 1 year warranty.
At the price of the Falcon Menace, I would have definitely considered it....and might buy one in the future based on what I've learned here.
I have a feeling we are probably about to see a lot better features on scopes from a wide variety of mfgs from high to mid end. It seems that Night Force is going to do their FFP soon and Leupold is expanding its FFP line. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 years, we see Bushnell and Burris following suit with FFP options, better reticles and matching turrets. The Falcon Menace will give you this stuff NOW though.
Thanks for the info. It's been enlightening.
Sean
At the price of the Falcon Menace, I would have definitely considered it....and might buy one in the future based on what I've learned here.
I have a feeling we are probably about to see a lot better features on scopes from a wide variety of mfgs from high to mid end. It seems that Night Force is going to do their FFP soon and Leupold is expanding its FFP line. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 years, we see Bushnell and Burris following suit with FFP options, better reticles and matching turrets. The Falcon Menace will give you this stuff NOW though.
Thanks for the info. It's been enlightening.
Sean
Jon A
Well-Known Member
Oh, keep things in perspective. As long as it doesn't break, the IOR makes this thing look like a *** in about every way. The Falcon is great for the money, but the IOR is in a whole different class.
While it has done well so far, I used multiple IORs for years and have absolute 100% faith in their tracking. I don't know if I'll ever have that much faith in the Falcon.
But I agree as more and more companies catch on, hopefully the price for the features we want will be driven down.
While it has done well so far, I used multiple IORs for years and have absolute 100% faith in their tracking. I don't know if I'll ever have that much faith in the Falcon.
But I agree as more and more companies catch on, hopefully the price for the features we want will be driven down.
And please don't misunderstand me....I know the IOR is a much better scope than the Falcon, I was just saying I didn't realize there was any other FFP choices for that price other than Horus Hawk with a 1 year warranty. Apprently, Falcon Menace has a 5 year.
As it is, I spent about twice what I'd planned on my IOR when I first budgeted an optic for this rifle. I justified it to myself as only having to buy something this nice once in a lifetime.
I would have considered the Falcon had I known about it b/c it much more closely matched the funds I planned to spend.....but ultimately, I'm glad I went ahead and got the IOR as, (just like you mentioned) it's a nicer scope overall. I am looking for a gift for my Dad's scope since I'd like him to get something nice to go with an M1A I just picked up for him. He's the kind of guy that will buy a scope for $60 and think it's fine.....and for him it is. I'd just like to be able to get him something a little nicer for his birthday/Christmas present. He gave up alot of nice things to provide for his family and I'd like to be able to give him some of those things he missed for our benefit. While I can't afford another IOR, a Falcon or Horus is something I could get and would be light years ahead of the optics he's used to.
Sean
fireroad
Well-Known Member
Hey Jon A -It's been a year now since your inital review...how about an update?
Any other Falcon Mencae owners please feel free to chime in too!
Any other Falcon Mencae owners please feel free to chime in too!
Texas Republic
Well-Known Member
Any suggestion on a good reliable place to purchase them at?
