Not another which rifle is better thread!

[Bigeclipse]

Thanks for the run down. Sounds like you've got yourself a shooter. I've held the 110 FCP HS and it fit me well. It was a little on the heavy side but this is going to be a bench gun. I've decided to stick with the 24" heavy barrel for now even though it's not ideal... It's going to save me a littlle up front cost, allow me to do as much load development as I want without having to worry about shooting the throat out, and, as you said, will get the job done out to 500 yards or more.

I'm going to bed the action with devcon and adjust the trigger to start. That should give me a good platform to work on my abilities as a shooter and eventually, get me out to those longer distances. Once I do start working my way up then I'll consider re-barreling it and really setting it up nicely for 1,000 yard shooting. This rifle in factory form will be plenty for what I'm looking for at this point though.

I'm going to get the action wrench and barrel nut wrench along with some head space gauges just because they're never bad things to have. I don't really have a local gunsmith to me (that I trust at least) so I'd like to keep the work within what I'm comfortable doing. With the Savage, it sounds like that shouldn't be a problem outside of barrel threading or other machine work.

Looking forward to getting this thing going! I'll have it ordered up sometime this week and will post pictures as soon as I get it. Thanks for all of the help guys!

I forget but what caliber were you going for?

Also...this is currently the only savage I have owned BUT my buddies have a bunch of savages and all have been at least MOA accurate. With a good amount of load development most have actually been below that with some closer to the .5MOA mark so don't discount that factory barrel if you do get the savage. It may be a great shooter out of the box!

Now I don't want to get your hopes up either...if your ultimate goal is to have a benchrest competition type gun, then I honestly would probably not go the savage route. You will need a gun shooting some seriously awesome groups in the .1-.25 MOA range which would be very hard to do even in a modified savage. To be a serious competitor you will need a very tuned rifle. This would be like a custom blue printed Remington action with custom barrel and stock...etc. If your goal is to stay under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards then the savages will get you there!

 

[just browsing]

I forget but what caliber were you going for?

Also...this is currently the only savage I have owned BUT my buddies have a bunch of savages and all have been at least MOA accurate. With a good amount of load development most have actually been below that with some closer to the .5MOA mark so don't discount that factory barrel if you do get the savage. It may be a great shooter out of the box!

Now I don't want to get your hopes up either...if your ultimate goal is to have a benchrest competition type gun, then I honestly would probably not go the savage route. You will need a gun shooting some seriously awesome groups in the .1-.25 MOA range which would be very hard to do even in a modified savage. To be a serious competitor you will need a very tuned rifle. This would be like a custom blue printed Remington action with custom barrel and stock...etc. If your goal is to stay under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards then the savages will get you there!

.300 Win Mag. I like the Savage because they're easy to work on and I can always switch up calibers if I ever feel like it. Definitely going to stay with the factory barrel at least at first so I can work on my shooting abilities and some load development. I would be extremely happy if I had a factory rifle that was shooting .5 MOA - MOA.

On the same hand, I fully realize and understand that this is not going to be a competition rifle. Then again, I don't think I'll ever be a competition shooter. I do this for the fun of it. If I had wanted something that would keep me competitive in F Class or PALMA then obviously there are far better options than a factory Savage rifle.

I'm doing this to break into long range shooting. If this rifle will keep me under 1 MOA at 1,000 yards then I'll know that I bought a good rifle. At this point, however, I don't trust my abilities as a shooter to do that, much less worrying about the equipment that I'll be using. I think the 110 FCP HS is exactly what I'm looking for so I'm excited to get it and try it out.

Question: Bud's vs. CTD? Price difference is negligible. Who is preferable to deal with? Any LGS either can't get them or want a lot more than $1,029 for them, so who should I order it from?

Thanks again!

 

[Capt RB]

.300 Win Mag. I like the Savage because they're easy to work on and I can always switch up calibers if I ever feel like it. Definitely going to stay with the factory barrel at least at first so I can work on my shooting abilities and some load development. I would be extremely happy if I had a factory rifle that was shooting .5 MOA - MOA.

On the same hand, I fully realize and understand that this is not going to be a competition rifle. Then again, I don't think I'll ever be a competition shooter. I do this for the fun of it. If I had wanted something that would keep me competitive in F Class or PALMA then obviously there are far better options than a factory Savage rifle.

I'm doing this to break into long range shooting. If this rifle will keep me under 1 MOA at 1,000 yards then I'll know that I bought a good rifle. At this point, however, I don't trust my abilities as a shooter to do that, much less worrying about the equipment that I'll be using. I think the 110 FCP HS is exactly what I'm looking for so I'm excited to get it and try it out.

Question: Bud's vs. CTD? Price difference is negligible. Who is preferable to deal with? Any LGS either can't get them or want a lot more than $1,029 for them, so who should I order it from?

Thanks again!

If you have a local shop or gun club ffl have them order it. Most will order for you for just over cost.

 

[MudRunner2005]

While I do agree with all of what you said, you don't read much about accuracy problems with Savages, period. And obviously it's impossible to completely negate quality control issues, especially considering the number of rifles that these companies have sold over the years. There are always going to be exceptions with higher sales volumes, and that's to be expected. 9 out of 10 probably is inflated, and I'm sure I would be surprised to find out how much of that could be contributed to human error. Both are obviously proven rifles and both are going to have strong followings.

However, disregarding all of the Savage supporter BS (which I'm well aware there's plenty of), I've also spoken to more than a few people with Remington 700 rifles that have admitted to Savages being better shooters out of the box. Between trigger adjustments, skim bedding, etc., you're still looking at a few hundred bucks worth of work to get a Remington to perform up to it's full potential. As I said previously, both of these rifles would far outperform me as a shooter, so I'm just looking for something that I can buy and be done with. I'll deal with re-barreling when the time comes, but at this point I just want something that I know will be consistent.

I've read a few things about the MillSpec 5-Rs anyway, do you know what the deal with them is? I've read rejected military, manufactured to tighter tolerances, whatever. What actually sets them apart from their "lower end" rifles? I know 5-R refers to the rifling, but I haven't been able to find out why they're renowned as better and consequently, carry a higher price tag.

Thanks for your help.

I just want to say this... To get my 5R MilSpec to shoot .2xx-.3xx" groups, all I did to it was install an old style factory Remington trigger and tune it myself, re-torque the action screws to 65 in/lbs, and handload for it. That's it.

It has not been bedded, it has not been accurized, it has not had the action trued, it has not been hand-lapped, it has not had ANY work done to it, other than a trigger swap for a trigger that cost me $20.00 and 30 mins worth of install and tuning it. That rifle is 100% factory Remington parts and it shoots .2xx-.3xx" groups.

So, when it comes to the 5R Milspecs, you don't need to include that "couple hundred dollars to make it shoot like a Savage" as that's simply not true in the least. My buddy has a cheap 700 SPS .300 WinMag that with handloads shoots .5" groups. All he did was have me free-float the barrel, adjust the trigger, and re-torque the action screws and develop a handload for it.

Like I said, I've only shot 2 Remington 700's that wouldn't shoot. I've shot several cheap crap Remingtons (710 & 770) that wouldn't hold a 4" group at 100 yards, but those aren't 700's.

 

[just browsing]

I just want to say this... To get my 5R MilSpec to shoot .2xx-.3xx" groups, all I did to it was install an old style factory Remington trigger and tune it myself, re-torque the action screws to 65 in/lbs, and handload for it. That's it.

It has not been bedded, it has not been accurized, it has not had the action trued, it has not been hand-lapped, it has not had ANY work done to it, other than a trigger swap for a trigger that cost me $20.00 and 30 mins worth of install and tuning it. That rifle is 100% factory Remington parts and it shoots .2xx-.3xx" groups.

So, when it comes to the 5R Milspecs, you don't need to include that "couple hundred dollars to make it shoot like a Savage" as that's simply not true in the least. My buddy has a cheap 700 SPS .300 WinMag that with handloads shoots .5" groups. All he did was have me free-float the barrel, adjust the trigger, and re-torque the action screws and develop a handload for it.

Like I said, I've only shot 2 Remington 700's that wouldn't shoot. I've shot several cheap crap Remingtons (710 & 770) that wouldn't hold a 4" group at 100 yards, but those aren't 700's.

I don't think it's a question of whether or not the 700s are shooters or not... They've been proven time and time again. The MillSpec 5-R is still going to be ~$1,300 OTD, however, and I can get the Savage for right around $1,000. Knowing that I'll have a good shooting rifle for a lesser cost is all I'm looking for at this point. Besides, just about everyone will agree that the Savage is known to be the one of the most accurate factory rifles, whether it's $300 or $1,000.

I have no doubts that the 700 would do what I'm looking for and more without a problem, but between the initial cost, ease of adjustments and DIY-able bedding/barrel changes/etc., it's pretty clear to me the route I want to take at this point.

 

[Greyfox]

I have owned four Milsecs since there introduction, 3 308's and 1, 300WM. I also have a few buddies that own them as well. I will have to say that the performance of all have been the same as Mudrunners, and it would be my clear choice for an out of the box rifle for LR. I also own(or have owned) a few of the heavy barrel Savages, LRH,LRP, FCP and a Predator. Also, very accurate but I'm not a fan of their bedding system which in every case except my LRP, needed work to get good accuracy.

 

[roninflag]

i prefer remington. i have shot against savage shooters in f-class.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I just want to say this... To get my 5R MilSpec to shoot .2xx-.3xx" groups, all I did to it was install an old style factory Remington trigger and tune it myself, re-torque the action screws to 65 in/lbs, and handload for it. That's it.

It has not been bedded, it has not been accurized, it has not had the action trued, it has not been hand-lapped, it has not had ANY work done to it, other than a trigger swap for a trigger that cost me $20.00 and 30 mins worth of install and tuning it. That rifle is 100% factory Remington parts and it shoots .2xx-.3xx" groups.

So, when it comes to the 5R Milspecs, you don't need to include that "couple hundred dollars to make it shoot like a Savage" as that's simply not true in the least. My buddy has a cheap 700 SPS .300 WinMag that with handloads shoots .5" groups. All he did was have me free-float the barrel, adjust the trigger, and re-torque the action screws and develop a handload for it.

Like I said, I've only shot 2 Remington 700's that wouldn't shoot. I've shot several cheap crap Remingtons (710 & 770) that wouldn't hold a 4" group at 100 yards, but those aren't 700's.

I have owned four Milsecs since there introduction, 3 308's and 1, 300WM. I also have a few buddies that own them as well. I will have to say that the performance of all have been the same as Mudrunners, and it would be my clear choice for an out of the box rifle for LR. I also own(or have owned) a few of the heavy barrel Savages, LRH,LRP, FCP and a Predator. Also, very accurate but I'm not a fan of their bedding system which in every case except my LRP, needed work to get good accuracy.

I politely disagree to a small extent. The newer factory Remington triggers simply suck. Between the one I bought, the 2 my father bought and the 2 my friend bought...all after the recall...NONE of them get below 4lbs trigger pull. Can you adjust below that by taking the trigger group out and modifying...maybe. I know there are youtube videos showing this but I didn't want to attempt it and bought a timney trigger which I am VERY pleased. So I would say at the least he will either need to buy a new trigger or make the internal adjustments himself. That is just my experience with 5 post recall remingtons. For accuracy, out of the 5, mine was the only one that would not shoot well. After bedding the recoil lug, the thing shoots great! Bedding the recoil lug was EASY!

In my opinion, and again I am by no means a super long range shooter or competition shooter but if you are simply going for shooting out to targets at 1000yards for fun and hunting out to say 600+ yards then both savage and remingtons are fine and I would give edge to savage for higher chance of out of box accuracy and best bang for your buck, especially if you want to change calibers later. Switching barrels is simply easy, cheap, and pretty fun.

If your intentions are to eventually include some competitions or further distances, then the Remington is the way to go. More after market support. Gunsmiths are easily able to work on Remington actions. You can turn a Remington into a nice custom for competition. This will be my plan for my current Remington. After I shoot out the current barrel, I will have a gunsmith true up/blue print the action and rebarrel the rifle. I will then probably invest in a nice manners or McMillan stock.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I politely disagree to a small extent. The newer factory Remington triggers simply suck. Between the one I bought, the 2 my father bought and the 2 my friend bought...all after the recall...NONE of them get below 4lbs trigger pull. Can you adjust below that by taking the trigger group out and modifying...maybe. I know there are youtube videos showing this but I didn't want to attempt it and bought a timney trigger which I am VERY pleased. So I would say at the least he will either need to buy a new trigger or make the internal adjustments himself. That is just my experience with 5 post recall remingtons. For accuracy, out of the 5, mine was the only one that would not shoot well. After bedding the recoil lug, the thing shoots great! Bedding the recoil lug was EASY!

In my opinion, and again I am by no means a super long range shooter or competition shooter but if you are simply going for shooting out to targets at 1000yards for fun and hunting out to say 600+ yards then both savage and remingtons are fine and I would give edge to savage for higher chance of out of box accuracy and best bang for your buck, especially if you want to change calibers later. Switching barrels is simply easy, cheap, and pretty fun.

If your intentions are to eventually include some competitions or further distances, then the Remington is the way to go. More after market support. Gunsmiths are easily able to work on Remington actions. You can turn a Remington into a nice custom for competition. This will be my plan for my current Remington. After I shoot out the current barrel, I will have a gunsmith true up/blue print the action and rebarrel the rifle. I will then probably invest in a nice manners or McMillan stock.

Who said anything about a newer Remington trigger? I think you might have misread my post... NONE of my rifles have any XMP's or post-recall triggers in them. All of mine that came with XMP's got swapped out for old style flat-backs with the wide shoe (the ones Remington deemed "unsafe" which is a total load of BS, then started using the junk XMP trigger). The XMP trigger is junk. And I can only imagine they got worse after the recall. Got 2 pre-recall XMP's sitting on my bench if anyone wants them...

 

[Bigeclipse]

Who said anything about a newer Remington trigger? I think you might have misread my post... NONE of my rifles have any XMP's or post-recall triggers in them. All of mine that came with XMP's got swapped out for old style flat-backs with the wide shoe (the ones Remington deemed "unsafe" which is a total load of BS, then started using the junk XMP trigger). The XMP trigger is junk. And I can only imagine they got worse after the recall. Got 2 pre-recall XMP's sitting on my bench if anyone wants them...

Mud...didn't mean to state that but you made it sound like if he got a Remington 5r, it would simply be a shooter out of the box with little to no modification accept the trigger which is probably true. I was just trying to state that with the remingtons I have bought of late, the triggers were trash as you just stated, so likely the OP would have to do something about that if he went the Remington route. He could either find an older style Remington 700 trigger and have a gunsmith lighten it(or he could lighten it himself if he wanted to attempt it) OR he would have to buy a timney/jewel. The savage comes with an excellent trigger out of the box. Yes they are somewhat weird with the little blade piece but I found it very easy to get use to. Just my experience between remingtons and savage out of the box...the savage is the way to go for a budget friendly person looking to get into long range plus you can change calibers easily. IF you want a rifle that will hold its value, has a multitude of aftermarket support, any gunsmith can work with, and you can slowly turn into a very very NICE custom...the Remington is the way to go. It just all depends on the OPs intentions. Again, I am by no means a savage fan boy, nor Remington. Nor am I a competition shooter AND you have actually helped me on a few other things I had issues with a few months ago so obviously you have more experience than me. Just giving the OP information I have.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I agree. If I had the money, I'd stick a Jewell in every one of my rifles...hunters, range toys, or multi-purpose rifles... They would all get the same Jewell set on about 1.5 lbs.

But I can't shuck-out that $225 per gun... When it comes to mass-accessorizing your weapons for similarity, having as many as I do adds up very quickly. LOL

Timneys are not bad either, but once you have 1 Jewell, you will want all Jewells.

 

[roninflag]

i prefer remington. i have shot against savage shooters in f-class.

It is fun.

 

[just browsing]

Well it's pretty clear that there is support for both rifles LOL. I ended up finding the MilSpec 5-R with 24" threaded barrel for the same price as the Savage... Should have figured something like this would end up happening. Local Gun Shops can't track down either of them so if I want one or the other or I'm confined to going through one of the internet retailers anyway.

The cost of each is going to be about the same... Savage plus barrel threading or Remington plus a new trigger. These are the decisions that I'm horrible at. Both excellent rifles, one better out of the box (relative), the other better for long range shooting / building a long range rig off of the action. Almost starting to lean towards the Remington but I'm split between the two. Basically I'm going to flip a coin and that will be my decision.

This thread has been incredibly helpful fellas, I really appreciate all of the knowledge and insight.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Well it's pretty clear that there is support for both rifles LOL. I ended up finding the MilSpec 5-R with 24" threaded barrel for the same price as the Savage... Should have figured something like this would end up happening. Local Gun Shops can't track down either of them so if I want one or the other or I'm confined to going through one of the internet retailers anyway.

The cost of each is going to be about the same... Savage plus barrel threading or Remington plus a new trigger. These are the decisions that I'm horrible at. Both excellent rifles, one better out of the box (relative), the other better for long range shooting / building a long range rig off of the action. Almost starting to lean towards the Remington but I'm split between the two. Basically I'm going to flip a coin and that will be my decision.

This thread has been incredibly helpful fellas, I really appreciate all of the knowledge and insight.

honestly I don't think you will be disappointed with either. Just another thought... again if you ever think you will resell the rifle...get the Remington. They hold their value....especially the 5r! If you will want to tinker/rebarrel yourself go for the savage. If you want to truly do long range and build a SWEET rifle over time...go Remington but it will cost you just a bit more in gunsmithing costs for rebarreling. I didn't mean to scare you away from remingtons. it will likely shoot great out of the box BUT yes savages are known lately for their out of the box accuracy. I LOVE to tinker and build rifles on the cheap side of cost so building savages is really fun for me but if I was going to do an ultra serious build which might later involve a really really nice manners/McMillan stock, I would definitely do it with a Remington action.

Mudrunner appears to have a LOT of success with his remingtons right out of the box. My Remington was not so successful but after a quick recoil lug bedding it now shoots well.