Nosler Accubond Long Range problem

[gamehawker]

I'll be working up some loads of the ABLR 150gr out of my twin Remington 700 Sendero SF 7mm STWs sometime next week @ over 3,300 fps. Both of these Remington 700 Senderos SF 7mm STWs have shot .25 MOA three shots groups @100 yards last year with the standard Accubond 140gr (3,450 fps) & 160gr (3,250 fps) last year.

I also will be working up some loads of the ABLR 168gr too @ around 3,200 fps with my twin Remington 700 Sendero SF 7mm STWs.

I am going to use H1000 (the 140 gr, & the 160 gr, Accubonds did real well with this powder last year) powder, Fed215 primers and twice fired Remington brass.

I also post my report of findings after I'm done.

Hopefully I'll get some decent groups and it is not a velocity problem. If is is a velocity problem, I'm going to be real upset!

 

[Engineering101]

By the way, I've starting shooting the 270 WSM at 100 yards so it will stay on the paper. Having done that, it appears that it is just a really crappy barrel. I have however come to like the 270 WSM so I'll probably put a 5R of a more reputable manufacturer on the action just to prove everything but the barrel is fine.

Just to clarify, the lot of H4831SC that I was using initially did what all powders eventually do – it ran out. Luckily I had an unopened 8 lb jug sitting on the shelf but it's burn rate was quite a bit slower than the previous lot so I had to jack the load up 2.0 grains to get the same velocity.

Kirby said it very well and it is a point worth repeating, velocity and pressure go together. You don't get the velocity published in the various bullet manufacturers handbooks without getting the pressure they got also. Many of them instrument their test barrels with pressure sensors so the velocity associated with the max loads is what you don't want to exceed without due consideration (correcting for barrel length of course).

That is why I always shoot everything over a chronograph with rare exception. If you set it up with a laser bore sighter it just takes a couple of minutes and is perfectly aligned which is important. Of course you need a chrono that actually works otherwise don't bother. If you don't align it also don't bother. (Do the math - ten degrees of misalignment in pitch and yaw will cause a bullet traveling at 3,000 fps to read 2,900 fps.) I use the Competitive Edge Dynamics chrono and it has been very good. The IR skyscreens have also come in handy as you can see to shoot long after there isn't enough natural light for the chrono.

I have to apologize for the comments I made regards the last target I posted as they apparently were not clear. I can see after rereading what I said that I implied that the 7mm WSM was having the same problems as the 270 WSM. It is a matter of degree so the 7mm WSM really doesn't have any problems. It put 3 inside 0.75" at 200 yards which is plenty good enough for me. I've seen similar behavior with every bullet I've ever loaded – you hit a sweet spot and that is where it is most accurate. In this case the NOT sweet spot is worse than I'm used to seeing with the regular Accubonds. I was merely pointing this out and not implying that the ABLRs are a problem in this rifle. Now I just have to correct the BC to the real world with some long range test firing and I'll be ready to go hunting.

On the other hand 270 WSM barrels may be bound for the scrap heap. As I said, I don't expect to find any problems with the ABLRs in any caliber. I'll bet the Allen Mag doesn't even get them warmed up. If that turns out to be true it will be the first time I've seen a factory Savage barrel (two of them) that can shoot this bad but it is what it is. (Kirby – I did shoot the cup and core Sierra Game Kings and Berger Hunting VLDs in the first of those barrels and it can spray those bullets too so the barrel has problems.) I have noticed that in a way the 270 WSM barrels do act normal. They have a sweet spot where they shoot crappy and they have NOT sweet spots where you can't keep it on the paper. The magnitude of the variation is what is unusual, especially when sitting in a great HS precision stock with aluminum bedding block, etc, etc.

In one last desperate attempt to be totally totally sure that the guts of the scope haven't come loose I'm going to swap on another new scope of another different brand. It is the same scope as I've had on my 338 RUM for 650 rounds which is not the most friendly environment for a scope.

One good thing about all this messing around, if there is a problem with the ABLRs regardless of what I experienced we are going to find out about it.

 

[Engineering101]

And I should have added to my last - what we are going to find is that these ABLRs are some pretty good bullets even if the BCs are overstated a tad – and you won't be able to buy any until next year.

 

[royinidaho]

Come on Roy, the suspense is killing us

TJ,

Eatcher heart out.

Came in for lunch.

7 Shots down the tube.

Doing a ladder step up one grain at a time to distraction or can't get the bolt open without a hammer.

Stay tuned for final results.

 

[winmag]

TJ,

Eatcher heart out.

Came in for lunch.

7 Shots down the tube.

Doing a ladder step up one grain at a time to distraction or can't get the bolt open without a hammer.

Stay tuned for final results.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
I've been checking this thread every 1/2 hr dang it!
This is kinda like the night before opening day of Elk season. The anticipation is causing physical discomfort hahahaha.
Push em hard Roy. We all wanna know.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well Roy came in for lunch nearly 3 hours ago. I wonder if that means he's been climbing the ladder way up there?

 

[Fiftydriver]

Hey Kirby,
I agree, we need to First determine if there is a velocity, and or, pressure ceiling, to confirm weather its the rifle, or the bullet.
I'm still hopefull this is an isolated case. But like stated, when Roy gets done with his testing, we'll know alot more, & won't have to speculate.
There are posts from other LRH guys pushing the ABLR well over 3100, & even 3200 with sub MOA groups to around 1k.
However they are doing it with the 210, 30 cal not 270, or 7mm.
I don't see a design problem there, BUT that doesn't mean the ABLR design is good to go all the way across the board. There may be a design issue with the 270, & 7mm 150's.
The truth will stand on its own, so I guess all we can do is anxiously wait for Roy's results.

Yep, hurry up and wait!!

 

[gillettehunter]

Hurry up and wait on Roy. We're all waiting........ not very patiently I might add.. Bruce

 

[royinidaho]

Geeze you guys are like a bunch of little kids....

Ya'll had me so concerned about shrapnel that I did the shooting from the 200 yard position which is in the goat pasture. From 300 yds I shoot over the goats and didn't want to risk a casualty.

Those suckers are turning out to be valuable. They carry all my stuff. If not for them I'd get nothing but road hunting done and I just won't do that...

The shooting spot @ 200 yards is pure blow sand which is the pits. That coupled with the objective of this shoot was destruction and not accuracy I set up the Cabela's shooting bench. The high priced one. It was a gift from my son in law. Otherwise I wouldn't have it on the place.

As shipped the bench is maybe a 3 or 4 MOA @ 200 device. With some innovative adjustments and real attention when shooting MOA consistency is approachable.

Its super difficult to get consistent shoulder pressure resulting in vertical stringing.

Nevertheless I didn't have to eat sand and for the purpose of the shoot it functioned good enough.

The rifle is zero'd @ 300 yds for 169.5s poking alone at a little better than 3200. I didn't change that thus the group is a bit high.

Group size is about all that can be expected from the setup used.

Next steps are to zero @ 300 and then do some distance shooting.

Here's the results. U decide.

I think I found 2 nodes. One @ around 3200 and another at 3500. All bullets I shoot in this rifle perform at these two velocities.

 

[winmag]

Geeze you guys are like a bunch of little kids....

Ya'll had me so concerned about shrapnel that I did the shooting from the 200 yard position which is in the goat pasture. From 300 yds I shoot over the goats and didn't want to risk a casualty.

Those suckers are turning out to be valuable. They carry all my stuff. If not for them I'd get nothing but road hunting done and I just won't do that...

The shooting spot @ 200 yards is pure blow sand which is the pits. That coupled with the objective of this shoot was destruction and not accuracy I set up the Cabela's shooting bench. The high priced one. It was a gift from my son in law. Otherwise I wouldn't have it on the place.

As shipped the bench is maybe a 3 or 4 MOA @ 200 device. With some innovative adjustments and real attention when shooting MOA consistency is approachable.

Its super difficult to get consistent shoulder pressure resulting in vertical stringing.

Nevertheless I didn't have to eat sand and for the purpose of the shoot it functioned good enough.

The rifle is zero'd @ 300 yds for 169.5s poking alone at a little better than 3200. I didn't change that thus the group is a bit high.

Group size is about all that can be expected from the setup used.

Next steps are to zero @ 300 and then do some distance shooting.

Here's the results. U decide.

I think I found 2 nodes. One @ around 3200 and another at 3500. All bullets I shoot in this rifle perform at these two velocities.

Nice. Thank you Roy.
Well there goes the pressure/velocity theory at 3000FPS.
**on a side note, I'm glad no goats were harmed for your sake.

Can't wait to learn the Real BC of this bullet now!

 

[Pdvdh]

Well the bullets didn't come unglued. Look's OK to me, with respect to bullet integrity.

 

[bigngreen]

Lookn good!!!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Can't wait to learn the Real BC of this bullet now!

Perhaps Roy will do some long range BC testing?

 

[Engineering101]

Roy,

It is actually good that you shot from 200 yards as it lets me compare group sizes 1 to 1. Judging from shots 8, 9 and 10 and calling that a three shot group, it is pretty clear that these bullets not only don't mind running 3,500 fps but they actually like it. Very good to know.

Thanks a ton for doing this testing. I had no way of getting them rolling that fast.

Now I can quit second guessing the bullets.