North American Fires

Just in locally: With temperatures approaching the 100 degree mark expected for the near future, public pools closed due to air quality.

It's bad, but not as bad as it has been in the past, not sure how using the pool is any worse than any other summer activity the kids have access to. The woods are closed to shooting as well, the golf courses are still open thougho_O:rolleyes:
 
wbm said:
No. Native Americans put the fires out, ate the beetles, and put copper lightning rods on the tallest trees.
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That is really funny! I like it! :)

Yes we have created our own problems and it is way to large of a scale to fix now kinda like the ozone and the amount of C O2 in the atmosphere. People didnt like the thought of letting fires burn because it must be bad... right? Man has to control everything they think so all fires had to be put out and we see the results which you have explained very well. When the general public has no idea that fire needs to happen they just see it as Bad and needs to be dealt with so society has driven politics to shape the way fires are dealt with.
Then we have all the special sorts of people that have to be one with nature in their multi million dollar cabins plopped in the thick of trees with no defensible space at all. They cry the loudest and have the money and clout to get stuff to happen. It was always easy doing structure assessments in the projected area fires were going and knowing which houses were worth devoting resources to.
Unfortunately, as stated a couple times, the fix is to big to be fiesable and even if it wasn't all concerned parties would never be able to agree on a way to fix the problem. Just the way of the world I guess.
 
Idaho Trecker said:
And before we were here there were no fires, no beetle kill, and no lightning started fires right!?
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How about lets stop trying to go back to "before we were here"? We ARE here and things change........kinda hard to go back to before we were here without eliminating us isn't it? We should be managing ALL things in the present, not based on the past........We are here and shouldn't need fire to manage our forests, I would like to think we have evolved that much.
 
Ckgworks said:
How about lets stop trying to go back to "before we were here"? We ARE here and things change........kinda hard to go back to before we were here without eliminating us isn't it? We should be managing ALL things in the present, not based on the past........We are here and shouldn't need fire to manage our forests, I would like to think we have evolved that much.
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Nature controlled those problems with fire. The problem is that now nature still controls them with fire but we have a whole lot of people in the middle.

What I can't get is why people don't have the sense to cut the trees back far enough to keep them from burning up their homes and outbuildings.
 
Cutting the trees isn't a huge problem here, disposing of the by product can be. The permit system in place for burning slash isn't always useable, and dumping can be expensive.

A big issue in my mind are some of the noxious weeds, opportunistic non native species, such as cheat grass that peak, and die 4-6 weeks earlier than native grasses. Adding to that much to the length of time burning isn't feasible, as well as the fire season in general, herbicides come with issues as well. Some fields historically grazed have been regulated out of the use of livestock to keep it down.

Not that it relieves the owner of protecting themselves, just pointing out burning the roadside ditches spring, and fall isn't as easy as it was for our grandfathers. I don't think most folks, are prepared for the obstacles encountered.
 
Depending on who you listen to it is supposed to be between 112-115 degrees here today! Yesterday was 108 I believe. This is what I expect and was use to fighting fires in the southwest.. not north idaho!
 
I am no expert, but I have a hard time believing that we created thick forests inside of 100 years. I have been in a lot of old growth timber that I am pretty sure has not been subject to large scale fire. The amount of acreage that we have that is forested so big that I think it would be tough to burn all of it inside of 100 years. For that matter 100 years ago in MT there was a giant fire that swept several states and there simply was not the population available to stop it. I think we have been letting it burn now since the late 80's, so really only half of the last 100 years were we trying to put out the fires. It simply is not logical.

Same idiots that think we must suffer through the "man made forest fire problem", in a level of pollution that is far worse than anything that we cause from the industrial revolution, think we should limit the amount of driving we do for the sake of the environment. Burning our forests and purchasing lumber from Canada is just plain stupid! All our lumber mills are gone, we couldn't process our own lumber if we wanted to. There is nothing "environmental" about burning our forest. It is anti industry/capitalism. People that have bought into the idea that burning our forests is the best way to keep them "healthy" are useful idiots.

As far as temp goes, it's been hot before it is not a new thing. I wonder if all the co2 that we are putting into the atmosphere by saving our forest by burning them, is causing "global warming"? I'm surprised that we were able to make it through the prolonged period of not letting our forests burn and the resulting lack of co2 going into the atmosphere.

I'll stop now before I thoroughly **** off half the people.

Steve
 
I'm looking out my shop door and am having a hard timemaking out the hill a mile away. This from a fire started by lightning a month and a half ago. A few days ago, with the help of the Fire Service they finally got it to blow up from 500 acres to 5000 acres in a matter of a day. They must be tired from fanning the flames for the last month and a half. You know setting some back burns around it to keep it contained. Soon they will be able to call it a complex and announce that it will probably burn until Christmas. And then show their disappointment when the Sept radius put it out.

Steve
 
These same ding dongs don't want me to have a camp fire when I go backpacking because it is a scar on the landscape. Yet they are fine with the whole mountain range burning to the point that the soil is sterile.

Steve
 
Missoula is a sad sad place for me to drive by now... Where all the big lumber mills were are now vacant parking lots... The timber industry is what started and kept Missoula alive for ever now its like they all think living in traffic like LA is cool... You don't have 5 people in every city block starting up their logging and crew trucks at 3:00 am to go to work 6 days a week anymore .. Just a bunch of College Crap... Drive to Havre north on I- 15 and count the lumber trucks.... Canadian Bee Trains loaded with lumber headed south.Every 4th vehical is a lumber truck or a cattle pot from Canada.. Timber is a renewable resource... And it is shame this country doesn't produce our lumber into a usable product instead of just letting it burn..Logging helped way way more wildlife then it ever hurt... Around Thompson Falls for every acre of clear cut that was done the elk population went up X amount of animals... Around Missoula and the Swan.. the deer and elk come into the logging area just as soon as they shut their machines off and eat the beard moss... This is very helpful in the winter as the up the swan snows are 5-8 foot deep...When 99% of our Wildland Governing Agencies were taken over by extreme Environmental people things went way way down hill
 
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