NON-TYPICAL rifle build in mind; need some help...

[lancetkenyon]

This is what makes shooting/building fun. A possibility to consider is something my gunsmith has put together (nemesis machine) he took a 260 rem and put a creedmoor shoulder and neck on it. Boost performance with standard components. This should like the ubiquitus (in a normal year) 4831 powders.
Use a standard 6.5 creedmoor die for full sizing but set it long (ie don't size the last .10 case base. This way you don't need custom dies. Yes it requires fire forming 260 brass.

Or build a 6.5SLR. .260 Rem w. neck & shoulder of a 6.5x47L. But, you will get no where near a short mag performance.
My daughter shoots a 6.5SLR, and it has taken mule deer and pronghorn from 250ish, 391, 454, 532, & 637 with it.

 

[gator378]

The "large" cartridges that hold "lots" of powder is how we get bullets moving "fast" ... but they need the longer barrel length to achieve it ... by going shorter, you give the powder less time to work, therefore you have to go with faster powders, which means you will reach max pressure more quickly which means you have to not put any more in which means lower velocities ...

The Factory cartridges that are closest to what you're trying to accomplish are probably going to be the 6.5 PRC, the WSM's and the RSAUM's ... but you will loose enough velocity by going that short that you will need to move into the wildcat space which means you will have to reload or have someone else load for you ...

6.5 SS wildcat may be your best bet for what you're trying to do ...

If you care about powder efficiency (not everyone does - but I do - particularly when components are scarce and slow powders are a challenge) you might want to look at a custom throated 260 ackley and/or 7mm-08 ackley that will let you seat heavies long ... they are shy of the performance of the 6.5 PRC in the 26" barrels ... but ... at 20" barrel length, you may find they actually OUT perform due to that efficiency and abilility to burn faster powders with less pressure problems therefore losing less velocity per inch of barrel forfeited ...

Best of luck with your build - nothing better than building a rifle and watching it come together and hitting distant targets that first time!

P - Chem sucks. 1 st rule you never get something for nothing.

 

[Brant]

I am thinking about starting a somewhat unorthadox build and need help from the experts out there. I'm currently hunting with a 6.5PRC which I love. I've have been shooting/hunting suppressed on/off with it and the only thing I don't like is the length of the barrel and suppressor together which on my current rifle is 31".

I've got an idea to build on a hot rod cartridge but cut the barrel down to 19 or 20 inches which will give me the barrel length I want but also slow my cartridge down as to not burn my barrel out so quickly. The key for me is to pick a cartridge either in the 6.5mm or 7mm family that usually screams with a standard 24 or 26 inch barrel and by cutting it down still achieves the same or better numbers than I'm getting with the PRC. If I would cut the PRC down, I would have less energy and speed than a 6.5CM which isn't what I want. The big deal is I need to pick a caliber that will still have efficient powder burn with a shorter barrel. I'm thinking one of the short mags is going to get the nod, but I'm not completely sure. Any suggestions on caliber?

It sounds like you are saying that by slowing down the bullet out of a large case by chopping length off the barrel will save your barrel life. This is where your idea for a cartridge/rifle has a real downside and that is that the more powder you shove/burns down a .264 hole the quicker your throat will erode. Bullet velocity exiting the muzzle has nothing to do with barrel life. If a short barrel life is something your willing to accept and lots of people do the. Go for it but the other intricacies of needing faster powders and so on have already been addressed. Just wanted to make sure you were aware that a 264wm with a 20" barrel will erode the throat just as fast as a 30" barrel all other things being equal.

 

[dfitz7604]

On barrel life with a hot cartridge. If a hunting rifle of mine made it a 1-2k rounds it may make the rest of my hunting life time. At least the time that I will be able to climb mountains. So I'm not really concerned about that personally.

I do understand the overall length with a suppressor concern. I have a few other options on this.
1) I would either get a folding stock which is the quickest and most simple solution to the problem.
2) use a 20-24" barrel with quick disconnect for the suppressor.
3) may be easier to have a muzzle break with some kind of ear protection. I've switched back and forth on these problems. The cheap headphone style ear plugs they hang around my neck, go in quick, and are really cheap.

Good luck with your quest.
Daniel

 

[PRCLITE]

On barrel life with a hot cartridge. If a hunting rifle of mine made it a 1-2k rounds it may make the rest of my hunting life time. At least the time that I will be able to climb mountains. So I'm not really concerned about that personally.

I do understand the overall length with a suppressor concern. I have a few other options on this.
1) I would either get a folding stock which is the quickest and most simple solution to the problem.
2) use a 20-24" barrel with quick disconnect for the suppressor.
3) may be easier to have a muzzle break with some kind of ear protection. I've switched back and forth on these problems. The cheap headphone style ear plugs they hang around my neck, go in quick, and are really cheap.

Good luck with your quest.
Daniel

Thanks for the post and I appreciate your thoughts. I've went back and forth by hiking in with my suppressor attached and removed. It is definitely less to worry about when I'm walking in and out and the suppressor is off. My concern comes in for hunting out west. I know I'll be doing a lot more hiking/stalking than I do on the east. I thought about the idea of a folding stock while the rifle is strapped to my pack but for stalking it won't work. I'm honestly thinking about scrapping the whole idea altogether because in the end I'd only be saving about 4" in overall length and maybe a half pound between a shorter barrel and lighter receiver. It just doesn't seem like it's worth the investment when I can just deal with and get used to carrying a longer rifle while hunting.

 

[PAGSDIII701]

Thanks for the post and I appreciate your thoughts. I've went back and forth by hiking in with my suppressor attached and removed. It is definitely less to worry about when I'm walking in and out and the suppressor is off. My concern comes in for hunting out west. I know I'll be doing a lot more hiking/stalking than I do on the east. I thought about the idea of a folding stock while the rifle is strapped to my pack but for stalking it won't work. I'm honestly thinking about scrapping the whole idea altogether because in the end I'd only be saving about 4" in overall length and maybe a half pound between a shorter barrel and lighter receiver. It just doesn't seem like it's worth the investment when I can just deal with and get used to carrying a longer rifle while hunting.

I'd STILL Build a Sherman

 

[BrentM]

I am willing to bet you can find negative opinions about any bullet made on the planet for wide variety of reasons. I have no skin the game what people shoot. My neighbor runs the 143 simply because of the bear, deer, and elk he has killed all dropped with 1 shot. I believe he shot 2 elk twice, just because they had not tipped over yet and he believes in rounds sent until animal is down. He and I have both guided many hunts and both follow that premise. Meet the fps criteria for a bullet expand and put the bullet where it belongs, I have a pretty good feeling it's going to do the job.

 

[nkyshooter]

Thanks for the post and I appreciate your thoughts. I've went back and forth by hiking in with my suppressor attached and removed. It is definitely less to worry about when I'm walking in and out and the suppressor is off. My concern comes in for hunting out west. I know I'll be doing a lot more hiking/stalking than I do on the east. I thought about the idea of a folding stock while the rifle is strapped to my pack but for stalking it won't work. I'm honestly thinking about scrapping the whole idea altogether because in the end I'd only be saving about 4" in overall length and maybe a half pound between a shorter barrel and lighter receiver. It just doesn't seem like it's worth the investment when I can just deal with and get used to carrying a longer rifle while hunting.

or ... perhaps ... Rechamber your existing 6.5 PRC to SS, remove 2-3" from your existing muzzle and fireform your existing 6.5PRC brass to the new 6.5 SS chamber and you probably hold onto or possibly even increase your muzzle velocity while trimming a little bit of weight and for sure length leaving you with a bit handier rifle without much if any ballistic trade off ...

This approach allows you to continue to fire 6.5 PRC ammo as a side benefit - @elkaholic can correct me on this if I am wrong ...

Just a thought ...

EDIT & Correction: ... I think the 6.5 SS is based off the 270 WSM and NOT the 6.5 PRC ... so you'll have to start with new brass ... sorry for the incorrect info!

 

[PAGSDIII701]

or ... perhaps ... Rechamber your existing 6.5 PRC to SS, remove 2-3" from your existing muzzle and fireform your existing 6.5PRC brass to the new 6.5 SS chamber and you probably hold onto or possibly even increase your muzzle velocity while trimming a little bit of weight and for sure length leaving you with a bit handier rifle without much if any ballistic trade off ...

This approach allows you to continue to fire 6.5 PRC ammo as a side benefit - @elkaholic can correct me on this if I am wrong ...

Just a thought ...

WHOA If feasible, HECK YA!

 

[Win Tom]

If you are building a hunting rifle, .264 win mag will outperform any other 6.5 caliber in terms of speed. With a model 70, with a 24" sporter barrel, you can expect soeeds approaching 3000fps without putting the barrel in an early grave. If you are building a comp gun, then lighten up on the load, live around 2800 fps and youll still see decent barrel life.
Its a big casing, and lots of room to explore speeds, just remember the throat pays the price for it.
Ive got a model 70 sporter, in .264 win mag that has probably 3000 plus rounds thru it and am retiring it with a new barrel for my long range comp gun.

 

[JTH]

Your post got my attention, I've just started a short barreled custom build to run suppressed. My usual 'go to" is a 24" 300 win mag, but with the can on it, it's a bit long, but what is more trouble to me is it's unbalanced (muzzle heavy, wants to roll muzzle down) when carrying on the sling. Rather than cut this one down, I'll keep it intact and use for stand hunting, and build another for hunts where I'm covering some ground. The goal for me was only removing 2", (22" barrel length), but going to a carbon fiber wrapped barrel to lose a little weight from the muzzle end of the package and gain balance when the suppressor is attached. On caliber selection, I've also got a 6.5, so started looking at 7mm to fill a gap in the safe. Lots of great choices for bullets in 7mm. After a lot of research I decided on the Sherman 7Max in a Defiance XM length action (cut another 1/2" in length from the package with the XM action) I really went non-typical by choosing not to run it in a stock, but instead to run it in a light weight chassis (XLR Element 4.0 magnesium), which allows me to easily add weight to the butt end if necessary to get balance, and is pretty light weight depending on how you set it up. My intention is to develop a load around the 172 absolute hammer (solid copper), which should get near 3,000 FPS in this setup. If that works out I will be good for deer out to 800 yards, will likely need to go with a cup and core bullet for distances beyond that. There are several folks on this site with the 7 Max pushing the 180 Berger VLD up around 3,000 FPS out of 22" barrels. With a 0.673 bc, that should have the velocity and energy to be a contender on deer and elk at 1,000 yards.

Good luck with your project.

 

[BrentM]

If you are building a hunting rifle, .264 win mag will outperform any other 6.5 caliber in terms of speed. With a model 70, with a 24" sporter barrel, you can expect soeeds approaching 3000fps without putting the barrel in an early grave. If you are building a comp gun, then lighten up on the load, live around 2800 fps and youll still see decent barrel life.
Its a big casing, and lots of room to explore speeds, just remember the throat pays the price for it.
Ive got a model 70 sporter, in .264 win mag that has probably 3000 plus rounds thru it and am retiring it with a new barrel for my long range comp gun.

You do realize the PRC is easily capable of doing that with less powder right?

 

[Far North Hunter]

The "large" cartridges that hold "lots" of powder is how we get bullets moving "fast" ... but they need the longer barrel length to achieve it ... by going shorter, you give the powder less time to work, therefore you have to go with faster powders, which means you will reach max pressure more quickly which means you have to not put any more in which means lower velocities ...

The Factory cartridges that are closest to what you're trying to accomplish are probably going to be the 6.5 PRC, the WSM's and the RSAUM's ... but you will loose enough velocity by going that short that you will need to move into the wildcat space which means you will have to reload or have someone else load for you ...

6.5 SS wildcat may be your best bet for what you're trying to do ...

If you care about powder efficiency (not everyone does - but I do - particularly when components are scarce and slow powders are a challenge) you might want to look at a custom throated 260 ackley and/or 7mm-08 ackley that will let you seat heavies long ... they are shy of the performance of the 6.5 PRC in the 26" barrels ... but ... at 20" barrel length, you may find they actually OUT perform due to that efficiency and abilility to burn faster powders with less pressure problems therefore losing less velocity per inch of barrel forfeited ...

Best of luck with your build - nothing better than building a rifle and watching it come together and hitting distant targets that first time!

I sure would agree with 260 AI

 

[JuddL]

I love short barrel suppressed hunting rifles. My current two...16" encore 7-08ai & 16" 6.5 GAP 4S. The 7-08ai isrunning 120 Nosler BT at 2,960 and the GAP is running 123 scenars 3040. Lab Radar speeds.

Next 300wsm with 180 something 18-20" or a 6 Creedmoor 18".