nitriding Q&A

[EFR]

I have had H&M do four barrels for me. Two Lothar Walther AR barrels, .223 Wylde and 6x45, and two Bartlein barrels, 270WSM and 300 RUM. The Lothar Walther barrels and the 270WSM were sent in before being fired. The 300 RUM barrel had about 240+/- rounds through it.

I have not shot an identical load in the 300 RUM, but velocities seem to be about the same. Accuracy shows no difference. I'm still working up loads for the 270WSM, but I've gotten two one hole groups (3 shots/100 yds) during load development. One thing I can say, is they do clean up fast, noticeably faster than untreated barrel.

I treated my barrels for several reasons, mostly to extend barrel life. I've read that nitriding will extend barrel life. I paid a lot for these barrels, and I want it to last as long as possible.

One thing I can tell you for sure, is nitriding is tough stuff. I have cut down (shorten and re thread) a bunch (12+/-) of nitrided AR barrels for local SWAT guys. The nitride finish will ruin a standard lathe tool bit. I've learned to use a carbide tool bit in the lathe, then when I get through the nitride finish, switch the tool. Just the other night, I put an AR together for a friend. I attempted to dimple the barrel for the front gas block and I wrecked a 1/8" end mill on the barrel. Would not cut through the nitride finish. I ended up switching to a center point to cut through.

When I get to shoot an identical load through the 300 RUM, I'll post pre/post nitriding velocity and accuracy results.

 

[wilkup]

Interesting information! $150 for a barreled action sounds like a steal for what it does, especially compared to Cerakoting! Might be my next rifle finish =)

 

[WildRose]

I have had H&M do four barrels for me. Two Lothar Walther AR barrels, .223 Wylde and 6x45, and two Bartlein barrels, 270WSM and 300 RUM. The Lothar Walther barrels and the 270WSM were sent in before being fired. The 300 RUM barrel had about 240+/- rounds through it.

I have not shot an identical load in the 300 RUM, but velocities seem to be about the same. Accuracy shows no difference. I'm still working up loads for the 270WSM, but I've gotten two one hole groups (3 shots/100 yds) during load development. One thing I can say, is they do clean up fast, noticeably faster than untreated barrel.

I treated my barrels for several reasons, mostly to extend barrel life. I've read that nitriding will extend barrel life. I paid a lot for these barrels, and I want it to last as long as possible.

One thing I can tell you for sure, is nitriding is tough stuff. I have cut down (shorten and re thread) a bunch (12+/-) of nitrided AR barrels for local SWAT guys. The nitride finish will ruin a standard lathe tool bit. I've learned to use a carbide tool bit in the lathe, then when I get through the nitride finish, switch the tool. Just the other night, I put an AR together for a friend. I attempted to dimple the barrel for the front gas block and I wrecked a 1/8" end mill on the barrel. Would not cut through the nitride finish. I ended up switching to a center point to cut through.

When I get to shoot an identical load through the 300 RUM, I'll post pre/post nitriding velocity and accuracy results.

Great post.

 

[FURMAN]

I have one barrel waiting, on the bench, to be shot and another rifle with nitriding almost complete. I would be interested in any more information as well. I would guess with an identical load speeds would be slower because pressure will be lower. From talking to the guys doing the nitriding I would expect to have to increase powder charge to reach the same pressure and more speed.

 

[WildRose]

I have one barrel waiting, on the bench, to be shot and another rifle with nitriding almost complete. I would be interested in any more information as well. I would guess with an identical load speeds would be slower because pressure will be lower. From talking to the guys doing the nitriding I would expect to have to increase powder charge to reach the same pressure and more speed.

Less resistance equals more velocity at lower pressures.

That is why the big guns used by our military tankers can fire a round at 5000-6000FPS through a smooth bore cannon.

M256 120mm Smoothbore Gun

 

[FURMAN]

Nitriding a barrel is not unlike running moly or HBN on bullets. It reduces pressure and the load almost always has to be increased to match the velocities that were achieved prior to the coating. The benefit is more powder can be used to get back to the same pressure and thus yielding more velocity.

 

[6mm06guy]

I have a nitrided 6.8 spc barrel that I really like, but for my 270 nosler build I want the gun to stay polished stainless.
Is it possible to just have the bore treated? Forgive my ignorance. I know I could cryo treat my barrel, but the nitriding seems like the best way to go.

 

[FURMAN]

No. It is dipped in a bath at relatively high temps. It causes a layer of black oxide that is visible on the surface. The one on my bench was Cerakoted after. No one could tell me if the Cerakote will stick but I decided to give it a shot.

 

[6mm06guy]

Well I guess I could build on a cheaper action, I don't want to coat a defiance action, it's a work of art as is. Well thanks guys.

 

[FURMAN]

I know it is personal preference but I am coating my Pierce action. I think it looks slick. Then again I am not a fan of polished stainless. It is great to have choices. There are not a lot of pics around but if you Google nitrided actions you will see some Kelbly actions and some Bat tacticals.

 

[WildRose]

If you find the black oxide finish from nitriding barrels and actions to be too boring you can always consider titanium nitride finish that a lot of hand gunners are using.

For those who want to be loud and proud at the range and in the woods.

Titanium Gun | A division of Coating Services Group

It's utterly amazing that we have so many options today as opposed to just thirty or forty years ago when you had a choice between blued and blued and the slightest bit of moisture or salt could ruin the "gun of a lifetime" faster than you could blink.

 

[WildRose]

Nitriding a barrel is not unlike running moly or HBN on bullets. It reduces pressure and the load almost always has to be increased to match the velocities that were achieved prior to the coating. The benefit is more powder can be used to get back to the same pressure and thus yielding more velocity.

That simply isn't true nor is it a new discussion.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/melonite-barrel-treatment-81681/index13.html

DOD did extensive testing using standardized M855 ammo and found that the barrels ran faster as well. There are endless discussions on other forums discussing that testing and it's result but it's really bad form to link to other forums so I will leave it to anyone interested to do some googling.

 

[6mm06guy]

Have any of you put cerakote over the top of a nitrided barrel? I would be fine with the stainless cerakote. I just don't want a black gun for this build.

Also if you have done it, do you bead blast the barrel and apply it like normal?

 

[6mm06guy]

I called cerakote today and talked to them, they said it was the same as painting over anodized parts. So I'll just build my 6 br or something on a defiance action and use a stiller or something for my 27 nosler. Thanks for all the help guys, it's been a great help.