Newb Question, Right Direction?

[Fitz]

Hi Fitz.
Where in Md are are you? I moved to Maryland from Idaho [stupid, I know] several years ago and although I am far from expert at the long range game I would be willing to help you out.

Since joining this sight a couple years ago I have managed to take a few critters past 600 yds and I regularly shoot targets beyond that.

I built a carry weight 7mm STW for my first custom and would be very comfortable shooting an elk to 800 yds in calm conditions. My cartridge and load are capable further especially at high elevations but my practice has been at 800 and less.

My goal when I started was to have the ability to shoot to 600-700 if that was the only shot that presented itself. I love the stalk and am just as happy killing my bull at 6 yards as 600. I have reached my goal but unfortunately [for my wallet] I have contracted the long range disease and my original goal now seems uninspiring.

I spend most of my trigger time behind a 260 Remington, a .223, and rimfires and I believe that precision practice with any cartridge at any distance is invaluable.

When I build a dedicated long range hunting rifle it will be a .338 on a large capacity case [RUM minimum] for all the reasons you have already heard from others.

I live in Columbia. I'm originally from Utah, so I know how you feel about moving out here.

If the brake does give me too much trouble, I'll give SSG a call and see what they are able to do.

 

[Troutslayer]

I didn't mean that the barrel life is a little short. I meant that 26" might be considered a little short to squeeze out the advantages of a .338LM.

 

[liltank]

I didn't mean that the barrel life is a little short. I meant that 26" might be considered a little short to squeeze out the advantages of a .338LM.

Well I just crunched the numbers. I did some research on reloadersnest.com. One person posted a load of Retumbo with a 26" barrel. His speed is 2711. For ease I went with 2700fps using JBM calculations. At 1000yrds you only 278.9" of drop which equates to 26.6 MOA. This is all at a remaining 1633fps w/ 1776.2 ft.lbs. of energy. You only get a 5.0 MOA push in 10mph wind.

With the right load, I would expect you could push it closer to 2750 in a 26" barrel. These speeds are more than capable of killing things way out there.

Just out of curiosity I researched a 338WM with a 300grn SMK. At a speed of 2505 from a 24" barrel, it has just enough poop in my opinion to get you to 1000 yrds with 32MOA. Muzzle velocity 1471 and energy is 1442 ft. lbs. This is based off of current temps and humidity in the east coast at 1000ft above sea level. You get up in high country where elk and moose hang out and the 338WM is going to be a contender. If you can find one with a 26" barrel, you will only stand to gain velocity which only improves your cause. You may be able to do better than 2500fps if you play around with loading.

Tank

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It looks like a fine choice of rifle to me. The 338 Lap is a terrific cartridge. You will most certainly want to get into hand loading, for the expense and accuracy that you will improve.

When you start shooting, and load developing, don't get too concerned about 100yrd groups. They are relatively meaningless in my opinion. My long range rig hold about 1" at 100yrds, not very good. It holds the same group at 200yrds and sometimes at 300yrds. If I had not tried that load at 200yrds I would have discarded it, and that would have been a mistake. Since then I rarely shoot at 100yrds. 200 or 300yrds will give more information about your rifle and load.

I say go for it, there will be plenty of folks here that will help you as much as possible. I am a long ways away, but will help you if I can.

Steve

 

[Fitz]

I think most on here would agree that the barrel is a little short but still ok. Winchester actions don't seem to be a platform that too many people build upon. That muzzle brake is going to throw debris and snow all over the place if you are shooting prone because it has ports all around it, it will also be loud. Then you've got to take into consideration the cost of either 1. buying factory .338LM ammo 2. Making it. It is more expensive than some other "similar" calibers either way and it's not like you can go to any old gun shop and pick up a dusty box of .338LM. I'm giving you the negatives here.

On the plus side it's a great cartridge that can knock the crap out of something from a long ways off. You can shoot a massive projectile with a ton of energy. It also appears to be very accurate assuming the seller isn't blowing smoke. You've got to weigh your options.

If that rifle is as accurate as claimed it will only be your skills between you and an animal at 1000 yards. You're going to have to put in some trigger time to be able to shoot that kind of distance.

I got outbid at the last moment. But after reading your comments, I'm sorta happy I didn't win. I'm not worried about the ammo. I want to learn how to reload my own.

But I was worried about the action and the brake. I'm pretty set on getting a 338. Would it be better to buy individual parts and build my own? Or, should I just buy a nice stock 338 and build upon that?

 

[angus-5024]

Fitz,
I was doing exacly what you are doing now 2 years ago. I bought a XCR .338 RUM and did a bunch of work to it myself. It was a gamble but I got a real good shooter. group sizes at 100 yards are between .425 and .625 with 300 SMK's.
That M70 looks like a winner. you could also look at used Weatherby accumarks in a .340 or bigger.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I didn't mean that the barrel life is a little short. I meant that 26" might be considered a little short to squeeze out the advantages of a .338LM.

My bad.

Well I just crunched the numbers. I did some research on reloadersnest.com. One person posted a load of Retumbo with a 26" barrel. His speed is 2711. For ease I went with 2700fps using JBM calculations. At 1000yrds you only 278.9" of drop which equates to 26.6 MOA. This is all at a remaining 1633fps w/ 1776.2 ft.lbs. of energy. You only get a 5.0 MOA push in 10mph wind.

With the right load, I would expect you could push it closer to 2750 in a 26" barrel. These speeds are more than capable of killing things way out there.

Just out of curiosity I researched a 338WM with a 300grn SMK. At a speed of 2505 from a 24" barrel, it has just enough poop in my opinion to get you to 1000 yrds with 32MOA. Muzzle velocity 1471 and energy is 1442 ft. lbs. This is based off of current temps and humidity in the east coast at 1000ft above sea level. You get up in high country where elk and moose hang out and the 338WM is going to be a contender. If you can find one with a 26" barrel, you will only stand to gain velocity which only improves your cause. You may be able to do better than 2500fps if you play around with loading.

Tank

I've run the 300 SMK numbers before and thought it did a little better for down range velocity. But your numbers are correct. Sierra doesn't advertise an expanding velocity for the SMK's, but I would hesitate to use it on large animals at less than 1700 fps. My guess is that probabaly 90% of Alaskan moose are taken between sea level and 2000' elevation, so in this case I would rate this rifle shooting an SMK @ 2750 as a 1000 yd gun. That's just me.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I got outbid at the last moment. But after reading your comments, I'm sorta happy I didn't win. I'm not worried about the ammo. I want to learn how to reload my own.

But I was worried about the action and the brake. I'm pretty set on getting a 338. Would it be better to buy individual parts and build my own? Or, should I just buy a nice stock 338 and build upon that?

The Rem 700 is th most popular factory action to build on because it is a good solid action and it has the most after markets accessories and parts available. That doesn't mean the Winchester action isn't good. I'm not a gunsmith and have never fired a Winchester so I cant really comment on it's quality. But in the case of the Lapua you were bidding on, the work was already done to it, and appeared to be a very good performer. But there will always be another rifle.

If you have a flexible budget, a build would be a good way to go. The only downside would be a fairly long wait for a good gunsmith. By the time you get all the parts together and to a smith, it willprobably be about a year or so until you see the rifle. The biggest decison for most is whether or not to build from a custom action or off of a factrory action. A custom action will be of higher quality and need less work but it will run a few hundred more.

If I were to do a budget build off of a factory rifle, I would buy a new Howa in SS steel in a popular cal such as a 30.06. I would sell the stock and and barrel. This would get you a very good action (probably a little better than a Rem 700) with bottom metal for about $300-$400 net. B&C makes some very good aluminum block bedded stocks for these actions for about $250 give or take depending on style. A match grade custom barrel blank will run you about $250-$350 depending on who you get it from and how long and fluted or not. So for the basic rifle components you are to about $900-$1000 plus smithing (blue print, chamber, crown) which will probably run about $600-$700. Which gets you to $1500-$1700 for a basic rifle.

Then there are the extras....

Installed Brake, $200-$250
Installed aftermarket trigger, $150-$250
Bedding job, $150-$250
Tune or replace firing pin, $50-$150
Custom bottom metal and mag box installed $300-$400 ?


There's more you could do, but that gives you an idea.

There are also some really fine rifles that show up in the classified section of this site for a very good price.

Hope that helps,

Mark

 

[Fitz]

What do people think about Remington 700 Police Sniper 338 Lapu?

 

[sp6x6]

This is kind of related, I looked at a review comparing Sako TRG 42-27" barrel to a AWSM IN 338 LM. they where shooting mostly 250 gr. bullets and he said the sako had a harder time stabilizing the 300. The 250 was a lapua scenar w/BC .675. My ? is I am shooting 340WM and want to try some of the 250 type bullets, Which seem abuot optimum without going to the 338 type super mags. SMK,NAB, THUOGHTS on the 300 gr, my barrel is 26".In the Hodgdon manual my 340 shoots within 70 fps with 250 gr. vrs. 338 LM

 

[liltank]

This is kind of related, I looked at a review comparing Sako TRG 42-27" barrel to a AWSM IN 338 LM. they where shooting mostly 250 gr. bullets and he said the sako had a harder time stabilizing the 300. The 250 was a lapua scenar w/BC .675. My ? is I am shooting 340WM and want to try some of the 250 type bullets, Which seem abuot optimum without going to the 338 type super mags. SMK,NAB, THUOGHTS on the 300 gr, my barrel is 26".In the Hodgdon manual my 340 shoots within 70 fps with 250 gr. vrs. 338 LM

Hornady make a 250grn BTHP with a BC of .675. I would not hesitate to use this bullet. From all accounts, they open well and shoot very well.

As far as custom gun for decent money, I whole heartily agree with MR, but you could also look at Savage target actions. I truly believe it makes a very good LM. I know because I have shot one that produced a 5" 3shot group at 1050yrds for its first flight to that distance. Choate super sniper stock, savage target action, Douglas 32" 1:10" barrel, EGW base, Bushnell elite 4200 Tactical, Burris XTR Rings. Total package is right around $2000.

You don't have to blue print and time a Savage action. You can just change the bolt head. Yes I know the target action is a short action, but it will eject a spent casing without any problems. If you have a loaded round you will need to pull the bolt. He has about 300+ rnds thru it without any issues.

Here is another option:
Entry Level Howa Tactical Package
Entry Level Remington Tactical Package

You might be able to get them to cut you a Lapua chamber. Never hurts to ask. You could buy the Howa or the Savage 116 w/ break in 338WM and rechamber to Lapua. That would be cheaper than rebarreling. You could then spend the money on glass, and good muzzle break. It will only be a 24" barrel, but give you something to start with. Just an idea.

Tank