Opa-lopa
Well-Known Member
I've seen sight mount holes drilled thru to the bore on a muzzleloader. Let the factory fix it, but make them write a report on how they addressed the issue permanently.,
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New Rifle. Utterly horrific chamber...UPDATED 4/19/20
- Thread starter entoptics
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entoptics
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2018
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- 882
Well...I gave them a chance...
As you can probably guess based on the timing (150 days since my OP), things haven't been good.
To summarize the following lengthy update, The rifle was a Savage 110 High Country, $1129 MSRP flagship model. Savage screwed me over good. If you wanna help me get at least some satisfaction, don't purchase any Savage products, or at the least, tell anyone who might be considering purchasing Savage products about my astonishing experience.
So what happened?
12/4/19 - Rifle received by Savage on ~12/4/19. I had to demand it, but they did send me a prepaid RMA label. I also requested a caliber change to 300WM, as that's what I'd really wanted in the first place, and figured they would be sending me a new rifle anyway.
1/9/20 - First response/update. "Your firearm is no able to be repaired and will be replaced with a new 110 High Country..." They agreed to do the caliber change, though it required an FFL transfer. Took a little long, but I thought, "Good on you".
1/25/20 (52 days since they'd received the defective rifle) - I'd not received tracking info or updates, but shockingly, when I went to my FFL to pick up a used rifle purchased from a member here, I noticed a 110 High Country box sitting in his pile of stuff waiting to be checked in. I jokingly said, "Hey that's my rifle!". He said he had no clue who it was for, as I was the only person who'd told him one was coming, so he double checked. SURE ENOUGH, it actually was my replacement rifle.
I was of course stoked, though a little peeved they'd sent it without any warning or tracking, but hey, 2 new rifles in one day! Wooohooooo! I immediately went to the range. 1st round out of the rifle was sticky...Hmmm, I thought...Looked at the brass...No f-ing way!
That's right...They sent me a new rifle, in a different caliber, with the SAME PROBLEM!!!! Well, this one didn't have the burrs in the chamber, but as you can see, it was still horrifically machined, enough to cause sticky extraction.
Talk about going from a great day to a terrible day in a matter of moments...
2/5/20 - Savage receives the 2nd rifle back (prepaid label at least). I requested a refund, but was told they'd hand select a new rifle, thoroughly test it, and send it ASAP. I was more than hesitant, but felt a bit helpless, and accepted the offer.
2/15/20 - Get the 3rd rifle, so they were at least fairly quick about it. Unfortunately, life was a bit chaotic, and I barely even took a look at it, and didn't get out to shoot it for a month. They sent a baggie full of brass with it, some nickel plated Winchester and some Hornady. Stupidly, I only glanced at it through the sealed bag, and didn't look close enough to see...
3/15/20 - Finally went out to shoot it. Noticed a couple out 20 were a tiny bit sticky. Inspected brass...
That's right! They sent me a 3rd rifle with a scruffy chamber! The middle brass are the ones they sent with the rifle!!!!!! So they test fired it, saw those marks (or didn't which might be worse), and decided to ship it to me anyway! To be fair, this one wasn't near as bad as the first two...but good lord!
I decided I must be insane, and this couldn't be real. Also, as luck would have it, my buddy visited with his 300WM Savage 111 LRH, so we decided to do a side by side by side comparison using the exact same loads. 3 rifles.
Left - Savage 111 LRH Shilen bbl, middle - 3rd Savage 110 HC, right - Savage 111 LRH bone stock...The ring about 1/3 up on all cases is from rubbing in the divided ammo box, not from chamber.
So I wasn't insane. It's only happening in the High Country. I looked at brass from 10 other rifles from a Yugo SKS to a 70 year old Win M70, to a Marlin X7. None had any issues.
3/25/20 - Demanded a full refund. Got prepaid label. Sent back THE THIRD RIFLE.
4/17/20 - Due to CoViD, I'm not gonna complain about them having it for 2 weeks. BUT. I get a call...
Savage - "Sorry, the rifle isn't defective enough to warrant a refund. We're going to polish the chamber and send it back" The guy then tried to explain to me "reamer chatter" "dull button" "shoots fine".
Me - "Are you serious? You just admitted that it has a scruffy chamber. I have documented via pictures and bore scope video that it's got a scruffy chamber. This is the 3rd rifle with the problem..."
Savage - "You used over pressure reloads. Reloads void warranty." (Irrelevant, but he was lying. See here. No mention. Owner's Manual mentions only "commercial/non-commercial not manufactured to SAAMI...")
Me - "You are wrong on both counts." (For folks that understand...75 gr H1000, 208 ELDM, 2860 fps, 24" barrel. 6 reloads on brass, 2 other rifles with no problems).
Savage - "Suck it."
So...That's the story. I spent $900 on a new rifle in mid-November. I still don't have a rifle 5 months later...
I have not received the 3rd rifle back with its "polished chamber". Maybe by some miracle, it will shoot lights out when I get it back. It wasn't as good as either 111 LRH when we did the side by side, so I don't have high hopes.
I can not sell the rifle in good conscience either, so I'm stuck with it regardless.
As you can probably guess based on the timing (150 days since my OP), things haven't been good.
To summarize the following lengthy update, The rifle was a Savage 110 High Country, $1129 MSRP flagship model. Savage screwed me over good. If you wanna help me get at least some satisfaction, don't purchase any Savage products, or at the least, tell anyone who might be considering purchasing Savage products about my astonishing experience.
So what happened?
12/4/19 - Rifle received by Savage on ~12/4/19. I had to demand it, but they did send me a prepaid RMA label. I also requested a caliber change to 300WM, as that's what I'd really wanted in the first place, and figured they would be sending me a new rifle anyway.
1/9/20 - First response/update. "Your firearm is no able to be repaired and will be replaced with a new 110 High Country..." They agreed to do the caliber change, though it required an FFL transfer. Took a little long, but I thought, "Good on you".
1/25/20 (52 days since they'd received the defective rifle) - I'd not received tracking info or updates, but shockingly, when I went to my FFL to pick up a used rifle purchased from a member here, I noticed a 110 High Country box sitting in his pile of stuff waiting to be checked in. I jokingly said, "Hey that's my rifle!". He said he had no clue who it was for, as I was the only person who'd told him one was coming, so he double checked. SURE ENOUGH, it actually was my replacement rifle.
I was of course stoked, though a little peeved they'd sent it without any warning or tracking, but hey, 2 new rifles in one day! Wooohooooo! I immediately went to the range. 1st round out of the rifle was sticky...Hmmm, I thought...Looked at the brass...No f-ing way!
That's right...They sent me a new rifle, in a different caliber, with the SAME PROBLEM!!!! Well, this one didn't have the burrs in the chamber, but as you can see, it was still horrifically machined, enough to cause sticky extraction.
Talk about going from a great day to a terrible day in a matter of moments...
2/5/20 - Savage receives the 2nd rifle back (prepaid label at least). I requested a refund, but was told they'd hand select a new rifle, thoroughly test it, and send it ASAP. I was more than hesitant, but felt a bit helpless, and accepted the offer.
2/15/20 - Get the 3rd rifle, so they were at least fairly quick about it. Unfortunately, life was a bit chaotic, and I barely even took a look at it, and didn't get out to shoot it for a month. They sent a baggie full of brass with it, some nickel plated Winchester and some Hornady. Stupidly, I only glanced at it through the sealed bag, and didn't look close enough to see...
3/15/20 - Finally went out to shoot it. Noticed a couple out 20 were a tiny bit sticky. Inspected brass...
That's right! They sent me a 3rd rifle with a scruffy chamber! The middle brass are the ones they sent with the rifle!!!!!! So they test fired it, saw those marks (or didn't which might be worse), and decided to ship it to me anyway! To be fair, this one wasn't near as bad as the first two...but good lord!
I decided I must be insane, and this couldn't be real. Also, as luck would have it, my buddy visited with his 300WM Savage 111 LRH, so we decided to do a side by side by side comparison using the exact same loads. 3 rifles.
Left - Savage 111 LRH Shilen bbl, middle - 3rd Savage 110 HC, right - Savage 111 LRH bone stock...The ring about 1/3 up on all cases is from rubbing in the divided ammo box, not from chamber.
So I wasn't insane. It's only happening in the High Country. I looked at brass from 10 other rifles from a Yugo SKS to a 70 year old Win M70, to a Marlin X7. None had any issues.
3/25/20 - Demanded a full refund. Got prepaid label. Sent back THE THIRD RIFLE.
4/17/20 - Due to CoViD, I'm not gonna complain about them having it for 2 weeks. BUT. I get a call...
Savage - "Sorry, the rifle isn't defective enough to warrant a refund. We're going to polish the chamber and send it back" The guy then tried to explain to me "reamer chatter" "dull button" "shoots fine".
Me - "Are you serious? You just admitted that it has a scruffy chamber. I have documented via pictures and bore scope video that it's got a scruffy chamber. This is the 3rd rifle with the problem..."
Savage - "You used over pressure reloads. Reloads void warranty." (Irrelevant, but he was lying. See here. No mention. Owner's Manual mentions only "commercial/non-commercial not manufactured to SAAMI...")
Me - "You are wrong on both counts." (For folks that understand...75 gr H1000, 208 ELDM, 2860 fps, 24" barrel. 6 reloads on brass, 2 other rifles with no problems).
Savage - "Suck it."
So...That's the story. I spent $900 on a new rifle in mid-November. I still don't have a rifle 5 months later...
I have not received the 3rd rifle back with its "polished chamber". Maybe by some miracle, it will shoot lights out when I get it back. It wasn't as good as either 111 LRH when we did the side by side, so I don't have high hopes.
I can not sell the rifle in good conscience either, so I'm stuck with it regardless.
ajkellerusmc
Well-Known Member
Wow, Not wanted to ever own a savage and this put some more cement on that thought. You are gonna have to have a smith work it over for more money. sorry for Your troubles
Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
Sorry about all of your trouble but now you know why people buy savages for the action and re-barrel and re-stock them. I've seen many savage factory barrels and have never seen a smooth one. Actually I had a 270 that when you ran a patch down the bore you could actually hear it. It wears a custom barrel now and the factory one...............................Tomato stake!
Danehunter
Well-Known Member
So "IronWorker", still no reply on what were your problems with a Browning rile.
Was it an FN manufacture?
Was it a Miroku manufacture?
WHAT specifically was the problem?
Eric B.
Was it an FN manufacture?
Was it a Miroku manufacture?
WHAT specifically was the problem?
Eric B.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
Did you tell them you used reloaded ammo?
I've had 3 xbolts and sold two. I feel your pain. I do have a Browning 10 gauge light gold auto that I'm going to hang on to.
entoptics
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2018
- Messages
- 882
No, but I sent back the bad brass on the third rifle, and they clearly put 2 and 2 together. It was MAI headstamp, and I'd tried to avoid spelling it out in previous communications. The fact that I never mentioned a specific ammo brand, and did mention early on "destroyed $20 worth of brass", along with the odd head stamp, probably made it pretty obvious to them.
As mentioned though, according to their own warranty, as well as the owner's manual, there's no prohibition on any type of ammo, except as stated in the manual on page 4...
Also, since the factory brass they fired and sent along with the third rifle had marks, it seems a bit disingenuous to have even brought it up. The guy was simply threatening/intimidating me with the false point.
He clearly didn't know what he was talking about really. "The brass you sent had signs of high pressure." I said, "REALLY??? What possibly makes you think that?" he replied "Flattened primers!"...like he'd got me good...
When I started explaining that he's full of crap, he realized he was in over his head and simply defaulted back to "Reloads void the warranty, but we're so nice, we're still gonna polish your chamber and send the piece of sh** back to you".
Can you see why they hate $60 bore scopes? They still wish they were several thousands of dollars so no one would have one. At today's price just about anyone who gives a darn has one. Too hard to hide poor quality anymore.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
What strikes me is both the gundrilling/reaming of the bore is done with different cutter tooling, then chamber reamers are yet another set of tooling.
Yet, all have feed lines. Makes me question the material of the barrel and/or final hardness was correct. In other words, machineability of the material was poor, regardless of cutter used.
Sad to see.
Yet, all have feed lines. Makes me question the material of the barrel and/or final hardness was correct. In other words, machineability of the material was poor, regardless of cutter used.
Sad to see.
The last three savages I purchased were lightly used. Never shot them or even looked at the barrel. First thing I done was pull the barrel & ordered the barrel I wanted. But honestly I think I've saw just about everything from all of the factory rifles I've owned. I've got a custom rifle chambered from a reputable shop that everyone here knows. I won't mention the name of the shop but the chamber walls isn't the prettiest but she shoots amazing and extracts fine. So I didn't feel the need to jack around with it. But yeah, it seems that alot of the big manufactures are focused on asthetics and new features while not so much detail is always given to the most important parts of the firearm. Savage ownership has been tossed around several times in recent years. Vista already stated they was intending to sell Savage. Along with the fact that the average hourly wage at Savage is probably bear bones. I can't imagine all this would encourage an inspiring work environment. Remington & Savage ownership has been tossed around so many times & poorly managed at times and along with the Libs putting all the pressure on them that they can. It's a wonder that either one of them is still in business. But quite a few of the factory rifles I've owned had something that wasn't just right. I'm not making excuses or even saying that it should be accepted. I have sent three back to be fixed myself. It seems that if they go bang, they passed qc and send them on out. But it's not just Savage. Yes, after the 3rd replacement I would also be frustrated.
tankgijohn72
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 466
How does it shoot? I will take it off your hands for $400 if it shoots!. I know that its not something that you want to do with a new rifle, but if savage wont touch it, take a look at the chamber hones that are out there. Stupid easy to use. Keep it out of the throat. I have a cva .243 i bought for my 2 year old daughter to use (needed some time for load development...). Anyways, had a rough chamber that was hard to extract with handloads. Similar machining marks to what you had. Used a flex hone chamber hone and cleaned it up quickly. Accuracy still good. Yes i realize that you may be hesitant to try it on a $900 rifle, whereas i used it on a $150 rifle. Just saying its an option. Good luck.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Savage barrel steel is not the greatest. One of my match shooters used a Savage 6br like a ton of guys do in the factory varmint class. At 1000 rounds it had over 4 inches of bad fire cracking. I mean alligator skin looking fire cracking. I cut it off and redid the chamber and crown and it shoots in the 2s. Very accurate barrel just soft. He had this barrel cryo treated too which should of made it last longer. He doesn't shoot hot loads either with 108 Berger's doing 2820. This barrel has alot of tool marks in it not unlike the OPs. But it really hammers and he won his club matches last yr and was winning this yr till the virus shut it all down. I say give the rifle a try it might surprise you how good it shoots. Polishing that chamber won't hurt the size enough to worry about. Those rings are so small you can't measure them with normal tools. I have zero doubt that I could get them out fast and easy on my lathe. I know it sucks to have a sucky chamber on a new gun but I would just fix it and get to shooting. Forget their warranty it obviously stinks and they don't care what they give you. Worse case put a good prefit on it and it will be better yet. If you live near me I will help you out.
Shep
Shep
